Hard mode and extreme mode armor penetration

[Some goofi dummi]

On hard and extreme modes, the enemy mechs gain such a substation about of armor plating the only way to eliminate them is usually through some form of hacking which is a very limited resource. I was hoping there would be more options in the future to buff armor pen on ai mechs pre ww4 because as of now, a captured high grade version of a Convicter is typically all that can be used, the human variants are stronger than what the ai can produce even when its given 3 stacks on armor piercing rounds. Currently a 3 times buffed metal tiger takes at least 12 shots to take out a convicter mk4

The skyfall missions only apply to flying vehicles as far as i know and we dont have much options to give those armor plating outside a limited tech that adds unsubstantial amounts of it.

I was thinking maybe more exploration options for obtaining more mech based tech and maybe have more augmentation options similar to androids would remedy this and make the mech game play more engaging than being entirely reliant on either post ww4 mech designs or only having good pen options from captured variants or the liquid metal tiger

Modular mech systems akin to how spire ships worked in fleet command would be fun i think, More modular vehicles as well with more varied systems to specialize would be so cool.

I really really adore this game regardless and love the updates that you have been putting out so far, it's really unique

[GC13]

Have you tried the Hellfire mech? It should be able to handle the +200 armor piercing boosts.

For general armor cracking though, the great wyrm and liquid metal tigers can reach 540 armor piercing. That should be good enough for most targets.

[Some goofi dummi]

Originally posted by GC13:

Have you tried the Hellfire mech? It should be able to handle the +200 armor piercing boosts.

For general armor cracking though, the great wyrm and liquid metal tigers can reach 540 armor piercing. That should be good enough for most targets.

hard and extreme mode the hellfire and most mechs outside post ww4 can not pen many of the buffed enemies, these guys got like 600+ sometimes 700 armor

[GC13]

Post WW4 you should instantly acquire some extra-large, extra-spicy mechs capable of dealing all sorts of death all over the place.

[Some goofi dummi]

Originally posted by GC13:

Post WW4 you should instantly acquire some extra-large, extra-spicy mechs capable of dealing all sorts of death all over the place.

yes I know, I'm saying that before ww4 theres little to no options for dealing with various mechs outside of limited hacking resources.

I just want the mechs to actually have things to put in all the different aug slots they get.

Honestly the post ww4 mechs on hard or extreme difficulty are also not able to contend with the sheer amount of enemies that do attack, I really wish we had more area of attack units besides the sledge and foundry for this, something to help with all the war raptors and massed infantry that surround me constantly lol

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

I do need to make some more options for extreme armor piercing eventually. But in general, I did a lot of this on purpose -- you rarely are in a case where you need to shoot an enemy mech, even in extreme mode, unless you're in the WW4 scenario or similar.

Having scary unstoppable humans in war machines that you have to avoid or hack was a choice, at least for now.

That said, all of the mechs that you hack CAN penetrate the armor of other enemy mechs, so if you're really on them with repair spiders and maybe a Mindrunner buff and so forth, then they should outclass enemy mechs and take them out, so long as you're careful about it.

[Some goofi dummi]

I mostly mention it due to how some of the newer projects lead to similar to ww4 scenarios such as the economic crash or the various invasion.

I have been trying stockpile convicters for that very purpose and having a foundry over them right in the center of my base but they often do go down to instant deaths from the sheer firepower they are facing at times and the 40+ determination cost each on harder difficulties adds up fast.

I do enjoy how hard modes add variants that are quite scary to deal with though, it really makes you need to tackle it with everything you got

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

Yep, I hear you. It's a thing I'm treading carefully with, and being unusually stingy about. Giving too much armor piercing too easily can wind up just making it like armor piercing isn't there at all, since it's a binary sort of mechanic if you're not "1-99 under what you need."

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

OH! I am a silly person. I forgot to mention just how freaking awesome Parkour Bears are in terms of armor piercing. Each bear has between 975 to 1007 armor penetration. This is enough for them to deal serious damage to anything that isn't a high-altitude transport.

Their attack power only ranges between 575 to 707, but they have a lot of health. So these can be hard to wrangle, but are a way to augment your armor penetration in a semi-controllable way.

[GC13]

Originally posted by Some goofi dummi:

I'm saying that before ww4 theres little to no options for dealing with various mechs outside of limited hacking resources.

I've never found mechs particularly hard to deal with in Hard at least. Most of them should have armor values you can reach, and those rare ones you can't need just a small amount of Wisdom to take off of the board forever or Creativity to render safe for several turns.

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

Yep, but he's right that on Extreme they stop being reachable.

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

Actually, it turns out that with the item upgrades note working properly, you were being denied quite a bit of armor penetration. I think you'll have a much easier time in this new build:

https://steamcommunity.com/ogg/2001070/announcements/detail/530965072572317985

[Some goofi dummi]

oh cool, thank you!

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

Sure thing! I had completely missed that this was what was going on. Pingcode pointed it out, and I really had to facepalm.

[Some goofi dummi]

There's so many interweaving mechanics going on so that's very understandable! Its good that you have a fan base that reliably gives you feedback, the bugtracker is a great system for game dev

[x-4000 (Chris McElligott-Park)]

Indeed, it helps a lot. This is also why I tend to write out release notes with what is expected to happen. That way people can check those and know if something is working as intended (but possibly a bad idea), or if it's just not working at all, or if it's working as intended, and actually a great idea for reasons that are not obvious in the first moment.

Anyhow, yep. Been using this bugtracker since I think 2011. Prior to that it was all via forums, that was a mess to coordinate.