Me'thinks the Mad Cat outranks the Warhawk and Executioner.

[PegasusJF]

Since I got the first assult mechs, I've been rather disappointed. Granted, they likely have the BIG engines to go a bit faster than the average assault mech, but honestly I'd rather take a hit on speed because BOTH the Warhawk and Executioner have very limited slots. Though personally the Warhawk is better of those two, as the Executioner has pitiful center torso armor WITH NO EXTRA SLOTS, and both have whole sections with NO possible pods with ANY SLOTS.

I prefer to have beefy armor builds as I think it necessary for these missions (see below for my go to mech), and funny thing is this build out armors any build I've been able to make on the two bigger mechs AND higher damage! Mayhap there are pods that I missed but I'm going to try "Crater Investigation" with a full Mad cat squad. Not all the same mind you, but all have 698+ armor with at as much armor I can throw on the things. I think I have a fighting chance here.

Note: I am absolutely loving this game, and hope there are tons of DLCs in the future, but I hope the Dire Wolf has more slots to play with.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3405647554

[PegasusJF]

Well, in all fairness we lost to the last lance of mechs and the turrets turning on...ouch

[isawaawasi5]

I like the Warhawk. It's the Gargoyle I find underwhelming. Even the Executioner can run a UAC20 and lots of small lasers build that's pretty decent.

[PegasusJF]

Yeah, I've sold all but one of my gargoyles, I hate the Executioner's paper thin center torso armor though.

[dragonflyer]

The Executioner has the same weight, movement profile, and the same loadout problems, as the Banshee: it's overengined for its size class. The only saving grace is that, being a Clan 'mech with an XL engine, it doesn't completely suck. Likewise, Gargoyle is basically a Clantech Charger, with the XL engine being the thing that allows it to mount actual weaponry. Some configs kind of work, but they're all undergunned by Clan standards, and giving them decent armor would inevitably make them even more so. Notice that, for what it's worth, the Gargoyle is actually faster than the Timberwolf, it moves like a medium despite being five tons heavier.

[zarthemad]

The Warhawk is meant for open plains domination in group fighting. It isnt really meant for city fighting.

The Gargoyle and Executioner default load outs and options are just terrible.

[Omnes Interficere]

The Gargoyle is a niche design, in that it's role is actually a fast assault. Think Cicada or Charger, where the priority is to be able to keep up with your starmates.

The Executioner fills a similar role, but adds jump jets for added maneuverability. Sadly, jumpjets have been nerfed hard since MW4V unlike in MW2 and MW3, and never recovered since.

Unfortunately, MW5C missions are all just drawn out battles of attrition dressed up with different objectives to make them less monotonous, so these two specialized mechs will not be as effective as your usual Omnis that have more available pod space and tonnage for offensive loadouts.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Because what we get is the bottom of the barrel. No Nightstar, let alone Archangel. Behemoth? Fafnir? "But it's Inner, not Clan!!!" - I actually don't care, invent a plot device.

At this point I feel like we are getting the same ones, cause the devs are too lazy to actually model new ones. Same reason we are always getting same-shape mechs instead of something like Fenris or Great Turtle.

[PegasusJF]

Well, you have to consider the fact that the devs are bound to existing lore. In the original 3050 Technical Readout (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_3050), the Warhawk and Executioner are the only ones between the Gargoyle and Dire Wolf, and there is no alternate setup for the Executioner (or Warhawk) that makes more pod space at the cost of a smaller engine.

Mayhap, they could have fudged a few omnipods so we could add more armor in key places, but that is pretty much it.

This game, being within a set lore, has to follow that lore to be true Battletech game. What they have made is pretty good (though a bit frustrating at times), so that suffices for me.

[dragonflyer]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

At this point I feel like we are getting the same ones, cause the devs are too lazy to actually model new ones.

Behemoth, Fafnir and Nightstar all have MWO models, so not feeling like making new assets is not the problem. The problem is that those are BattleMechs. Everything that we do have is an OmniMech, and the MechLab (frustrating mess that it is) has been designed around them. There are no provisions in the game for a playable Clan BattleMech, since we're playing a frontline star that would be equipped exclusively with Omnis. It's a bummer we don't see any as allies, but I hope they'll add BattleMechs in a DLC.

[Bovril Brigadier]

Originally posted by PegasusJF:

Since I got the first assult mechs, I've been rather disappointed. Granted, they likely have the BIG engines to go a bit faster than the average assault mech, but honestly I'd rather take a hit on speed because BOTH the Warhawk and Executioner have very limited slots. Though personally the Warhawk is better of those two, as the Executioner has pitiful center torso armor WITH NO EXTRA SLOTS, and both have whole sections with NO possible pods with ANY SLOTS.

I prefer to have beefy armor builds as I think it necessary for these missions (see below for my go to mech), and funny thing is this build out armors any build I've been able to make on the two bigger mechs AND higher damage!

You've pretty much highlighted the problem that is the Mad Kitty. It is essentially absurdly overpowered and trades virtually nothing for its performance capabilities. You can make an argument that it suffers from a lack of crits but that really isn't an issue when using Clan Tech during the invasion era.

The Warhawk and Executioner waste a lot of tonnage on fixed equipment so they don't really offer an advantage when it comes to loadout options. They additionally aren't actually that much tougher as although they have an extra 1.5 Ton of protection their armour distribution is highly questionable at best especially when it comes to side torsos. As a result the Mad Kitty tends to stand up just as well if not better in a firefight.

Originally posted by PegasusJF:

Well, you have to consider the fact that the devs are bound to existing lore. In the original 3050 Technical Readout (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_3050), the Warhawk and Executioner are the only ones between the Gargoyle and Dire Wolf, and there is no alternate setup for the Executioner (or Warhawk) that makes more pod space at the cost of a smaller engine.

The game follows all the sourcebooks for the Clan Invasion not just the TRO 3050, otherwise there would be no Shadow Cat or Arctic Cheetah. There is an Assault Omnimech that falls in between the Warhawk and Executioner during the initial invasion and that is the Kingfisher, however PGI don't have a model for it. Doesn't have a lot of tonnage to work with but is well protected and is in the Smoke Jaguar R.A.T. It actually probably would have done well in this game as it's geared up for essentially shooting galleries in mind in most configs.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by dragonflyer:

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

At this point I feel like we are getting the same ones, cause the devs are too lazy to actually model new ones.

Behemoth, Fafnir and Nightstar all have MWO models, so not feeling like making new assets is not the problem. The problem is that those are BattleMechs. Everything that we do have is an OmniMech, and the MechLab (frustrating mess that it is) has been designed around them. There are no provisions in the game for a playable Clan BattleMech, since we're playing a frontline star that would be equipped exclusively with Omnis. It's a bummer we don't see any as allies, but I hope they'll add BattleMechs in a DLC.

Damn, if only someone didn't force the devs at gunpoint to set up the scenario in a way where we only get a limited choice of mechs. Curse that dastardly villain! Oh, right, it was themselves.

This is like having a game where you only pilot a Flea, because the protagonist's dad really liked that mech and so the protagonist refuses to pilot any other. I don't care if the narrative makes sense when it stands in the way of enjoyable gameplay.

And I'm tired of "fans" sitting there in an armchair, one leg over the other, puffing on a pipe with a raised eyebrow and going "Hmpf! My good man, don't you know that we are playing in the year whogivesashit and therefore the most fun things are not available yet?" and someone else nods from another chair "Verily so, friend, what lack of knowledge!"

Well maybe, for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ once, put the singleplayer game in a year where we aren't driving in the oldest tincans possible with the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ equipment and a christmas-tree loadout.

Eh, ♥♥♥♥ it, now that Piranha has their layoffs, maybe the license will go to someone more capable.

[Omnes Interficere]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Originally posted by dragonflyer:

Behemoth, Fafnir and Nightstar all have MWO models, so not feeling like making new assets is not the problem. The problem is that those are BattleMechs. Everything that we do have is an OmniMech, and the MechLab (frustrating mess that it is) has been designed around them. There are no provisions in the game for a playable Clan BattleMech, since we're playing a frontline star that would be equipped exclusively with Omnis. It's a bummer we don't see any as allies, but I hope they'll add BattleMechs in a DLC.

Damn, if only someone didn't force the devs at gunpoint to set up the scenario in a way where we only get a limited choice of mechs. Curse that dastardly villain! Oh, right, it was themselves.

This is like having a game where you only pilot a Flea, because the protagonist's dad really liked that mech and so the protagonist refuses to pilot any other. I don't care if the narrative makes sense when it stands in the way of enjoyable gameplay.

And I'm tired of "fans" sitting there in an armchair, one leg over the other, puffing on a pipe with a raised eyebrow and going "Hmpf! My good man, don't you know that we are playing in the year whogivesashit and therefore the most fun things are not available yet?" and someone else nods from another chair "Verily so, friend, what lack of knowledge!"

Well maybe, for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ once, put the singleplayer game in a year where we aren't driving in the oldest tincans possible with the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ equipment and a christmas-tree loadout.

Eh, ♥♥♥♥ it, now that Piranha has their layoffs, maybe the license will go to someone more capable.

This just means that this isn't the game for you, and that's fine. MWO has that, and you won't have to worry about sucky AI. Modded MW5M also has those mechs and mods allow you to go beyond 3049 to enjoy said mechs and the tech that comes with the timeline progression. That's literally not what this thread is about.

[PegasusJF]

Originally posted by Bovril Brigadier:

Originally posted by PegasusJF:

Well, you have to consider the fact that the devs are bound to existing lore. In the original 3050 Technical Readout (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_3050), the Warhawk and Executioner are the only ones between the Gargoyle and Dire Wolf, and there is no alternate setup for the Executioner (or Warhawk) that makes more pod space at the cost of a smaller engine.

The game follows all the sourcebooks for the Clan Invasion not just the TRO 3050, otherwise there would be no Shadow Cat or Arctic Cheetah. There is an Assault Omnimech that falls in between the Warhawk and Executioner during the initial invasion and that is the Kingfisher, however PGI don't have a model for it. Doesn't have a lot of tonnage to work with but is well protected and is in the Smoke Jaguar R.A.T. It actually probably would have done well in this game as it's geared up for essentially shooting galleries in mind in most configs.

I stand corrected, this is a bit of a slip on PGI's part.

[Torroc]

Originally posted by dragonflyer:

The Executioner has the same weight, movement profile, and the same loadout problems, as the Banshee: it's overengined for its size class. The only saving grace is that, being a Clan 'mech with an XL engine, it doesn't completely suck. Likewise, Gargoyle is basically a Clantech Charger, with the XL engine being the thing that allows it to mount actual weaponry. Some configs kind of work, but they're all undergunned by Clan standards, and giving them decent armor would inevitably make them even more so. Notice that, for what it's worth, the Gargoyle is actually faster than the Timberwolf, it moves like a medium despite being five tons heavier.

The problem is when you move some of these mechs in to a setting where it is second by second VS table top the issue comes down to. In the table top you are limited to each round of combat is about 10 seconds. So its hard to pin down JUST how fast that small lasers should beable to fire in this game to make them even... viable for balancing. A gargoyle can alpha again and again with an enire SL load out and not kill its self with it, but the issue falls to how quick they cycle and how quickly you can brige the gap to use them.

[PegasusJF]

Originally posted by PegasusJF:

Originally posted by Bovril Brigadier:

The game follows all the sourcebooks for the Clan Invasion not just the TRO 3050, otherwise there would be no Shadow Cat or Arctic Cheetah. There is an Assault Omnimech that falls in between the Warhawk and Executioner during the initial invasion and that is the Kingfisher, however PGI don't have a model for it. Doesn't have a lot of tonnage to work with but is well protected and is in the Smoke Jaguar R.A.T. It actually probably would have done well in this game as it's geared up for essentially shooting galleries in mind in most configs.

I stand corrected, this is a bit of a slip on PGI's part.

Actually, I found a good reason why the Kingfisher wasn't in our lineup. According to this: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kingfisher it was created by Clan Snow Raven and was mostly used by Ghost Bear during the invasion.