MechWarrior 5: Clans

MechWarrior 5: Clans

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Skree Oct 19, 2024 @ 6:18am
So let me understand....
.... Sarah Weaver, or whatever the sakhan name is, makes me do all the work and then "claims" the honor of a duel with the main pirate? All stunning and brave?

Please tell me you get to kill her.

And then... the Draconis Combine, House Kurita, is "fascist"? I don't consider them good, but the word "fascist" in the time this game takes place in?

Who in the bloody hell wrote this stuff?

And the sakhan should be a likeable and heroic character? F4ck her.
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
Jhea Oct 19, 2024 @ 6:21am 
you didn't bother to read any of the novels of this universe?
this is exactly how they behaved in those.

you also didn't look up, if when anyone says something, it mustn't be true?
if that guy says 'house kurita is a fascist regime' it mustn't necessarly be true.
just as the everyday lefty uses any of these words to describe whoever they don't like
Last edited by Jhea; Oct 19, 2024 @ 6:24am
Skree Oct 19, 2024 @ 6:40am 
Originally posted by Jhea:
you didn't bother to read any of the novels of this universe?
this is exactly how they behaved in those.

you also didn't look up, if when anyone says something, it mustn't be true?
if that guy says 'house kurita is a fascist regime' it mustn't necessarly be true.
just as the everyday lefty uses any of these words to describe whoever they don't like

The novels never came out in my country. They simply aren't here. I read the lore on online resources, and the clans are different here than in, let's say, Mechwarrior 2 and Mechwarrior 3.

The care for "civilians" seems out of character for somebody who finds disgusting freeborns, for instance. It's like they tried to depict clanners as more cuddly and freedom lovers than they would be.

It is weirding me out a bit. And that chick? who lost a timber wolf arm against a single duel? For bloody hell, i would beat her in an Adder while she uses a Dire Wolf.

She would deserve an artillery strike in the back of her mech, to teach her a lesson.
Ninjafroggie Oct 19, 2024 @ 6:51am 
House Kurita IS facist.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica defines fascism as a "political ideology and mass movement that dominated many parts of central, southern, and eastern Europe between 1919 and 1945 and that also had adherents in western Europe, the United States, South Africa, Japan, Latin America, and the Middle East.", adding that "Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation."

The Holocaust Encyclopedia defines fascism as "a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation." and as "an ultranationalist, authoritarian political philosophy. It combines elements of nationalism, militarism, economic self-sufficiency, and totalitarianism. It opposes communism, socialism, pluralism, individual rights and equality, and democratic government."

Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines fascism as “a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”

Militaristic nationalism? Check. Contempt for electoral democracy and cultural liberalism? Check. Belief in natural hierarchy and the rule of elites? Check. Economic and social regimentation by force? Check. Subordination of individual interests for the good of the state? Check. Centralized autocratic government with a dictatorial leader? House kurita literally checks all the boxes.

Not like any of the other great houses are really any better.
Imperialus Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:15am 
Originally posted by Skree:
.... Sarah Weaver, or whatever the sakhan name is, makes me do all the work and then "claims" the honor of a duel with the main pirate? All stunning and brave?

Please tell me you get to kill her.

And then... the Draconis Combine, House Kurita, is "fascist"? I don't consider them good, but the word "fascist" in the time this game takes place in?

Who in the bloody hell wrote this stuff?

And the sakhan should be a likeable and heroic character? F4ck her.

Yes. Because she outranks you. Ergo she gets to set the terms of the engagement. Clan society is all about duels against 'worthy' opponents. There would be a whole ritual combat process to go through in order to challenge Sara Weaver for her blood name and her rank. It would be an interesting story arc for sure, but also unlikely to happen since she canonically dies when her Mech gets blown up on Tukayyid. So you don't get to kill her, some random Com Guard guy does.

They call the Draconis Combine Fascist because they believe the Draconis Combine is Fascist. The clanners (Smoke Jag in particular) have grown up for generations under the belief that the tyrants of the Great Houses destroyed the Star League and all that was good and right in the world.

No. She is not supposed to be a likeable character. She is supposed to be someone like Sepp Dietrich from the 1st SS Panzer Division. She is not a goodie.
talemore Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:34am 
Originally posted by Ninjafroggie:
House Kurita IS facist.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica defines fascism as a "political ideology and mass movement that dominated many parts of central, southern, and eastern Europe between 1919 and 1945 and that also had adherents in western Europe, the United States, South Africa, Japan, Latin America, and the Middle East.", adding that "Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation."

The Holocaust Encyclopedia defines fascism as "a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation." and as "an ultranationalist, authoritarian political philosophy. It combines elements of nationalism, militarism, economic self-sufficiency, and totalitarianism. It opposes communism, socialism, pluralism, individual rights and equality, and democratic government."

Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines fascism as “a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”

Militaristic nationalism? Check. Contempt for electoral democracy and cultural liberalism? Check. Belief in natural hierarchy and the rule of elites? Check. Economic and social regimentation by force? Check. Subordination of individual interests for the good of the state? Check. Centralized autocratic government with a dictatorial leader? House kurita literally checks all the boxes.

Not like any of the other great houses are really any better.

Actually facist were italy and Germany. Afterward there has been no facists since the ideology ended 1945

Yet nobody can really say what makes facism any different.

It is a blueberry in the pie. It was nothing else than a movement of italy who keep losing every colonial war. The failure were so grave that some would see it as such italy was desperate trying to win a game.

That facism still exist in italy. Hostility toward strangers have made the economy of italy into stagnation. Even if Italy had every reason to win it hasn't.

I don't know what to say about it, a self destruction of the civilization where people have very little to do than to join the military.

This is why one shouldn't see utopia as ideal.

Italy is the utopia. Inside utopia you have no privacy or ownership.

Some would say it is just a hidden communism.

Can you really say there is a difference?
When capital fails. And the people have nothing to fight for they call for charismatic leaders to guide them back to the capital gain by help of guns.

Liberty is very close to be same thing as facism if one look at history. Liberty enforced landlords to be taken from their wealth to give it to others as in utopia you don't own anything.

If you try to own a thing they will make sure you don't have it. Since you don't have an army at your disposal. People loyal to you as a one big company.

If one should be scientific, every corporation is a facist regime.
Droknar Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:39am 
I felt that in her duel she did terrible. She is supposed to be a freaking elite and there she is waving lasers around like she was drunk. She hit more of the ground and sky then her enemy.
talemore Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:49am 
The great houses don't want to be rulers. They want to be big companies as before.

But being this big means you are the government.

And star league see the big houses as nothing else than companies who grew too big and started to use weapons as business.

Technically they're all the mafia.

They became pirates who stole freedom of people for profit.

The oldest trading stock has been people and children.
They didn't wanted to be rulers and why the great houses came to be continue.

Every time one great house was about to be defeated another became allied to prevent this from happening. Over the centuries the great houses have self been playing a game where they pretend to be different houses since they so much wish to be companies and not the government.

One could picture it as EU members vs EU itself.

Some just want to play a game against each nation and other are the the ruler.

Just take example of Brexit and Brics.

They not gaining anything. They just want create discord and antics.

It is only in the ruins of the society the communists can win.
Skree Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:51am 
Originally posted by Ninjafroggie:
House Kurita IS facist.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica defines fascism as a "political ideology and mass movement that dominated many parts of central, southern, and eastern Europe between 1919 and 1945 and that also had adherents in western Europe, the United States, South Africa, Japan, Latin America, and the Middle East.", adding that "Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation."

The Holocaust Encyclopedia defines fascism as "a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation." and as "an ultranationalist, authoritarian political philosophy. It combines elements of nationalism, militarism, economic self-sufficiency, and totalitarianism. It opposes communism, socialism, pluralism, individual rights and equality, and democratic government."

Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines fascism as “a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”

Militaristic nationalism? Check. Contempt for electoral democracy and cultural liberalism? Check. Belief in natural hierarchy and the rule of elites? Check. Economic and social regimentation by force? Check. Subordination of individual interests for the good of the state? Check. Centralized autocratic government with a dictatorial leader? House kurita literally checks all the boxes.

Not like any of the other great houses are really any better.

I have already stated it, but i will repeat it more clearly.

My issue is not with classifying House Kurita as "evil", to use a pedestrian terminology, but the use of the word "fascist" from a clanner. It is bad writing, in a sci fi setting set into far future.
Skree Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:53am 
Originally posted by Droknar:
I felt that in her duel she did terrible. She is supposed to be a freaking elite and there she is waving lasers around like she was drunk. She hit more of the ground and sky then her enemy.

And she defeated your character in the trial of position after you already dueled twice, and she was fresh and in a new mech, more powerful than your own.

And if i could have played that part of the duel i would have shoved her dirty face in the mound and stomped on her with the claws of my mech, before tearing her out of the cockpit and tearing her asunder with my bare hands.

But alas!
Blood of Kerensky Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by Skree:
Originally posted by Ninjafroggie:
House Kurita IS facist.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica defines fascism as a "political ideology and mass movement that dominated many parts of central, southern, and eastern Europe between 1919 and 1945 and that also had adherents in western Europe, the United States, South Africa, Japan, Latin America, and the Middle East.", adding that "Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation."

The Holocaust Encyclopedia defines fascism as "a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation." and as "an ultranationalist, authoritarian political philosophy. It combines elements of nationalism, militarism, economic self-sufficiency, and totalitarianism. It opposes communism, socialism, pluralism, individual rights and equality, and democratic government."

Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines fascism as “a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”

Militaristic nationalism? Check. Contempt for electoral democracy and cultural liberalism? Check. Belief in natural hierarchy and the rule of elites? Check. Economic and social regimentation by force? Check. Subordination of individual interests for the good of the state? Check. Centralized autocratic government with a dictatorial leader? House kurita literally checks all the boxes.

Not like any of the other great houses are really any better.

I have already stated it, but i will repeat it more clearly.

My issue is not with classifying House Kurita as "evil", to use a pedestrian terminology, but the use of the word "fascist" from a clanner. It is bad writing, in a sci fi setting set into far future.
So when Comstar says in-universe that Jerome Blake was a deity, you will also open that can of worms? Why is this even an issue? Every single one of the characters is a brainwashed psychopath. Why do you expect that the character breaks the fourth wall out of the sudden and says "Yeah well, except we are also fascists and our crusader way is wrong"?
Last edited by Blood of Kerensky; Oct 19, 2024 @ 7:57am
Shin Oct 19, 2024 @ 8:09am 
I would chalk it up to the modern use of the word simply because it is used almost synonymously with other more accurate words such as 'tyrannical'.

If one were to blame anything specific for its origin of erroneous overuse, we can perhaps look to Umberto Eco. Interesting philosopher, but at the end of the day, he was a depressed Italian and likely could not come to terms with how Italy was wilfully warped under Mussolini.

At the end of the day, try not to sweat Perez saying it. I was not too fond of its use there either but it is what it is.
Anastasiuss Oct 19, 2024 @ 8:17am 
Originally posted by Skree:
The novels never came out in my country. They simply aren't here.
You can read all, and I mean all, novels in every country, They are available for all types of digital reading devices. If you can read English, you can always get the latest books.
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech?page=1&rb_product_type=Fiction
Harukage Oct 19, 2024 @ 8:24am 
"Fascist" as a word said by Claners is very understandible, if you know who Alexander Kerensky was. A very common vocabulary.
Skree Oct 19, 2024 @ 8:40am 
Originally posted by Anastasiuss:
Originally posted by Skree:
The novels never came out in my country. They simply aren't here.
You can read all, and I mean all, novels in every country, They are available for all types of digital reading devices. If you can read English, you can always get the latest books.
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech?page=1&rb_product_type=Fiction

Hmm. That's right, after all.

I have a question, however. Are they any good? Or are there any particular book/series that is worth a reader's time?

Righn now i am reading Eruption from MIchael Crichton and i have a Stephen Kind novel waiting to be read. If i am reading something i would prefer for it to be at least decent. I will accept suggestions, although i have been burned from "game books" in the past.
Jhea Oct 19, 2024 @ 8:42am 
Originally posted by talemore:

Actually facist were italy and Germany. Afterward there has been no facists since the ideology ended 1945

Maybe IRL.... but no... north korea is in fact fascist

Originally posted by talemore:
Yet nobody can really say what makes facism any different.

here is the definition
it has to have a leader, and it is a nationalistic, antidemocratic organisation/ideology.

so we have the kim family, no democracy and pretty nationalistic.

oh wow - look what fantasy space regime is formed after that :)
it's house kurita and house liao

that was easy
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Date Posted: Oct 19, 2024 @ 6:18am
Posts: 37