Balance very off?

[Droolguy]

NVA has more potential armor, more potential firepower, and is faster than nearly any mech up to 20 ton's over it's weight class with it's default pods massaged just a tiny bit.

This new mechlab seems hyper restrictive and pigeonhole-y, I get it it's "lore accurate" (sortof) lore doesn't translate at all to a real time game because it was designed around turn based originally.

Did they learn nothing from MWO explicitely showing them that certain chassis are just straight up worse than others? Which is great for roleplay but horrible for an actual game.

Really, with some slight tweaking you get base stats that are just ridiculously over-the-top.

50 tonner.
94
58.8
380
66
81
900
3.6
25.76

Compare that with literally any version of any 60 tonner and they will be a straight downgrade across the board while costing more, 70 tonners become "maybe" territory.

I've just been running a squad of NVAs constantly for two whole planets now because there are no upgrades.

[kain279]

LOL mechlab stats? I can put 7 PPCs on a Direwolf and look threatening in the mechlab.

I tried running the Nova with 12 CERSL. You're just too fragile, despite being a deathstar at close range. You lose arms very fast and your star mates lose them even faster. Play the actual game and see how well you hold up in your Nova compared to a Stormcrow. With 18 kph more speed and superior hitboxes the Stormcrow is a far better mech, as well as not being saddled with wasted tonnage on jump jets it has FF armor and Endo Steel construction so is far more weight efficient, it is the Timberwolf of medium mechs. The amount of armament and armor you can hold while having 107 kph speed as well as being the top tonnage of its weight class means it outclasses all other mechs in its weight class.

I love the Nova, I really do. But in every mechwarrior game you just can't use it without handicapping yourself because the physical design is the physical design at the end of the day. The low slung arms are a problem too as mentioned before, you do a ton of urban fighting in this game and the lower your hardpoints are the more they will frustratingly get blocked by terrain.

Which at the end of the day is lore-accurate. The Nova was an earlier omnimech design and it shows. Hell if I remember right lore wise its torso isn't even supposed to twist but PGI added that to make it more fair. Some of the quirks in the design were due to it being the first or one of the first mechs designed to carry Elementals into battle.

Gauss + 6 CERML carried me on both the Stormcrow and Hellbringer until I unlocked the Timberwolf. Sadly due to sized hardpoints I can not run my preferred 2 x CERPPC 1 x Gauss on the Timberwolf in this game but 2 x CERPPC and either 5 or 6 CERML was nice, depends on how much armor and heat sinks you are comfortable with.

[talemore]

Originally posted by FlyingTorcensoredWhale:

Originally posted by talemore:

It will be a very complicated mech to build when you make it the way I build it.

2 uac5. 2 machine guns and lasers in the arms.

Now go and try if you can make my build

DONE.

Not sure why you'd want this, but here.

Black Hawk (Nova) Silly
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
----------------------------------------------------
Experimental 2849+ (Early Succession Wars -)
Advanced -
Standard 2870+ (Early Succession Wars -)
Tech Rating: F/X-X-E-D

Weight: 50 tons
BV: 1,669
Cost: 10,979,688 C-bills
Source: TRO: 3050
Role: Skirmisher

Movement: 5/8/5
Engine: 250 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 10 [20]
Cockpit: Standard Cockpit
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 83
Armor: 160/169 (Standard)
Internal Armor
----------------------------------------
Head 3 9
Center Torso 16 23
Center Torso (rear) 8
Right Torso 12 16
Right Torso (rear) 8
Left Torso 12 16
Left Torso (rear) 8
Right Arm 8 16
Left Arm 8 16
Right Leg 12 20
Left Leg 12 20

Weapons Loc Heat Omni
--------------------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 LA 1 Pod
Ultra AC/5 RA 1 Pod
Machine Gun RA 0 Pod
Machine Gun LA 0 Pod
ER Medium Laser RA 5 Pod
ER Medium Laser LA 5 Pod

Ammo Loc Shots Omni
-----------------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 Ammo RT 20 Pod
Machine Gun Ammo [Half] LT 100 Pod
Ultra AC/5 Ammo LT 20 Pod
Ultra AC/5 Ammo RT 20 Pod

Carrying Capacity
----------------------
One battle armor squad

Quirks
------
Combat Computer
Narrow/Low Profile

So you had to buy a special mech for my build who may not be available.

The uac5 and machine guns are to be in the left and right side torso and the reason why I don't have them in the arms is because it's a stupid sacrifice of the pepper boxes.

As I said, it's a complicated build.

[Droolguy]

Originally posted by kain279:

LOL mechlab stats? I can put 7 PPCs on a Direwolf and look threatening in the mechlab.

I tried running the Nova with 12 CERSL. You're just too fragile, despite being a deathstar at close range. You lose arms very fast and your star mates lose them even faster. Play the actual game and see how well you hold up in your Nova compared to a Stormcrow. With 28 kph more speed and superior hitboxes the Stormcrow is a far better mech, as well as not being saddled with wasted tonnage on jump jets it has FF armor and Endo Steel construction so is far more weight efficient, it is the Timberwolf of medium mechs. The amount of armament and armor you can hold while having 107 kph speed as well as being the top tonnage of its weight class means it outclasses all other mechs in its weight class.

I love the Nova, I really do. But in every mechwarrior game you just can't use it without handicapping yourself because the physical design is the physical design at the end of the day. The low slung arms are a problem too as mentioned before, you do a ton of urban fighting in this game and the lower your hardpoints are the more they will frustratingly get blocked by terrain.

Which at the end of the day is lore-accurate. The Nova was an earlier omnimech design and it shows. Hell if I remember right lore wise its torso isn't even supposed to twist but PGI added that to make it more fair. Some of the quirks in the design were due to it being the first or one of the first mechs designed to carry Elementals into battle.

Riiight.

"Play the game." Sure, did, took a squad of nothing but novas on a bunch of 300+ ton missions with only 250. Ended those missions w/ the whole squad still 80%+ condition.

Kept most of the squad in novas until I could transition to timbers.

EDIT: Also I just re-read your post and realized you quoted the "Low slung arms are a problem." right after you said "wasted tonnage on jumpjets". This tells me you've got no clue how to actually use jump jets... because if you do, the arm position doesn't matter.

[talemore]

Not only is nova a complicated mech to build, it's one of the few mechs who will reach above allowed weapons. So you may end up having too many weapons than the game allow the player to carry.

[kain279]

Jumpjets largely are wasted tonnage, they are good on the Arctic Cheetah since it is so fast though. If you stand on a building to shoot down in a big mech with bad hitboxes like the Nova you are exposed to way more fire and the way there is no real AI in this game and everyone just funnels in and tries to face hug you while your allies crash around into each other being mostly useless you take way more damage than you would peeking building corners.

[talemore]

Jumpjets were in canon on light mechs like the wasp and stinger.

Light air mechs could jump even further.

Since nobody really think of jet-engines as chain reaction jumping in air. You jump tiny jumps in rapid sections when inside a jetplane.

So if you can jump jet it would as well mean with extra fuel you could be flying around. And I don't like the idea of facing a flying assault mech.

Because Steiner likes to drop the mechs on the planet from space while having the dropships on the ground. And send "light" assault scout mechs to report nothing is to report. As well inner sphere would do stupid things like dropping a dropship on the clan mechs while jumping out of the window before the dropship hits the ground.

If it's stupid but works, it's not stupid - Terran Hegemony, proverb

[hasdrubal]

The Mad Dog is good too, and only 2 unlock levels from the Nova... Plus it has devastating long range weaponry. So that you do not have to wait for the Timber Wolf to change your wingmen's Omnis at least. For the leader, it is another story as you stumble nose first all the time due to the lack of a formation set-up in MW5 alltogether.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by kain279:

LOL mechlab stats? I can put 7 PPCs on a Direwolf and look threatening in the mechlab.

I tried running the Nova with 12 CERSL. You're just too fragile, despite being a deathstar at close range. You lose arms very fast and your star mates lose them even faster. Play the actual game and see how well you hold up in your Nova compared to a Stormcrow. With 18 kph more speed and superior hitboxes the Stormcrow is a far better mech, as well as not being saddled with wasted tonnage on jump jets it has FF armor and Endo Steel construction so is far more weight efficient, it is the Timberwolf of medium mechs. The amount of armament and armor you can hold while having 107 kph speed as well as being the top tonnage of its weight class means it outclasses all other mechs in its weight class.

I love the Nova, I really do. But in every mechwarrior game you just can't use it without handicapping yourself because the physical design is the physical design at the end of the day. The low slung arms are a problem too as mentioned before, you do a ton of urban fighting in this game and the lower your hardpoints are the more they will frustratingly get blocked by terrain.

Which at the end of the day is lore-accurate. The Nova was an earlier omnimech design and it shows. Hell if I remember right lore wise its torso isn't even supposed to twist but PGI added that to make it more fair. Some of the quirks in the design were due to it being the first or one of the first mechs designed to carry Elementals into battle.

Gauss + 6 CERML carried me on both the Stormcrow and Hellbringer until I unlocked the Timberwolf. Sadly due to sized hardpoints I can not run my preferred 2 x CERPPC 1 x Gauss on the Timberwolf in this game but 2 x CERPPC and either 5 or 6 CERML was nice, depends on how much armor and heat sinks you are comfortable with.

Heh, i wanted to run some builds from MWO on the Timberwolf but apparently there aren't any pods in this game that allow for a CLPL in each side torso. Gauss just seems pointless to me in this game, every enemy just rushes to brawl (apart from Catapults) and those things like to explode and take half your mech with them.

[Kage]

Just unlocked the Timberwolf - now I'm moving up from my Nova, as the other mechs in between just dont have that much going for them :( Next on the wishlist is my Warhawk - I might push to a Direwolf for Mia as shes pretty useless so far (shes currently in a Twin Gauss Mad Dag)

[kain279]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by kain279:

LOL mechlab stats? I can put 7 PPCs on a Direwolf and look threatening in the mechlab.

I tried running the Nova with 12 CERSL. You're just too fragile, despite being a deathstar at close range. You lose arms very fast and your star mates lose them even faster. Play the actual game and see how well you hold up in your Nova compared to a Stormcrow. With 18 kph more speed and superior hitboxes the Stormcrow is a far better mech, as well as not being saddled with wasted tonnage on jump jets it has FF armor and Endo Steel construction so is far more weight efficient, it is the Timberwolf of medium mechs. The amount of armament and armor you can hold while having 107 kph speed as well as being the top tonnage of its weight class means it outclasses all other mechs in its weight class.

I love the Nova, I really do. But in every mechwarrior game you just can't use it without handicapping yourself because the physical design is the physical design at the end of the day. The low slung arms are a problem too as mentioned before, you do a ton of urban fighting in this game and the lower your hardpoints are the more they will frustratingly get blocked by terrain.

Which at the end of the day is lore-accurate. The Nova was an earlier omnimech design and it shows. Hell if I remember right lore wise its torso isn't even supposed to twist but PGI added that to make it more fair. Some of the quirks in the design were due to it being the first or one of the first mechs designed to carry Elementals into battle.

Gauss + 6 CERML carried me on both the Stormcrow and Hellbringer until I unlocked the Timberwolf. Sadly due to sized hardpoints I can not run my preferred 2 x CERPPC 1 x Gauss on the Timberwolf in this game but 2 x CERPPC and either 5 or 6 CERML was nice, depends on how much armor and heat sinks you are comfortable with.

Heh, i wanted to run some builds from MWO on the Timberwolf but apparently there aren't any pods in this game that allow for a CLPL in each side torso. Gauss just seems pointless to me in this game, every enemy just rushes to brawl (apart from Catapults) and those things like to explode and take half your mech with them.

Damn in my opinion Gauss is GREAT in this game, especially because Jayden has the ballistic colldown pilot skill. With Heavy and Assault as well as Timberwolf and Dire Wolf affinity whenever I am in those mechs the cooldown on it is incredibly short and I like the gauss as a brawling weapon because of its lack of heat and high velocity meaning whenever I pull the trigger, that component takes 15 damage.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on the Hellbringer. It was great with the Gauss and 6 CERML combo. In retrospect I do wish I would have switched to the Timberwolf faster though since I did not accumulate enough mech XP to fully master Timberwolf, I did not get level 5 reverse speed just like I did not in the Direwolf before the campaign ended.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by kain279:

I tried running the Nova with 12 CERSL.

Why not 12 ERML? It's a good build that is perfectly playable and is extremely deadly in the hands of someone who can aim, you just have to play with cover in mind: popping out, shooting both arms and then popping back into cover to cool off. Works perfectly well in both singleplayer and competitive multiplayer in MWO.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by kain279:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Heh, i wanted to run some builds from MWO on the Timberwolf but apparently there aren't any pods in this game that allow for a CLPL in each side torso. Gauss just seems pointless to me in this game, every enemy just rushes to brawl (apart from Catapults) and those things like to explode and take half your mech with them.

Damn in my opinion Gauss is GREAT in this game, especially because Jayden has the ballistic colldown pilot skill. With Heavy and Assault as well as Timberwolf and Dire Wolf affinity whenever I am in those mechs the cooldown on it is incredibly short and I like the gauss as a brawling weapon because of its lack of heat and high velocity meaning whenever I pull the trigger, that component takes 15 damage.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on the Hellbringer. It was great with the Gauss and 6 CERML combo. In retrospect I do wish I would have switched to the Timberwolf faster though since I did not accumulate enough mech XP to fully master Timberwolf, I did not get level 5 reverse speed just like I did not in the Direwolf before the campaign ended.

I ran the Hellbringer for a few missions with dual solid slug UAC5s and 5 or 6 ERMeds. But yeah when gauss gets hit after armour has been stripped it has a decent chance to explode and take the adjacent area with it.

[Nephilim]

Nova - Timberwolf - Direwolf seems like the strongest of each tier and it's not even close.
the weight limit and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hardpoints just make anything else ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, some might be usable once you unlock every omni but they won't come even close to one of those properly built.
Doesn't help that Direwolf is pretty much the only mech that can run a viable dakka build if you wan't to minmax for mia skills.

[talemore]

Originally posted by Nephilim:

Nova - Timberwolf - Direwolf seems like the strongest of each tier and it's not even close.
the weight limit and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hardpoints just make anything else ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, some might be usable once you unlock every omni but they won't come even close to one of those properly built.
Doesn't help that Direwolf is pretty much the only mech that can run a viable dakka build if you wan't to minmax for mia skills.

Large pulse is the most effecient.

Especially when the game has a game breaking bug.

It is that override shouldn't be a thing.

Since override breaks the game you no longer have a heat bar since you take only damage in override.

Override brings nothing in game value than making you cheat the game.

No such thing as overheat. Override when overheated and turn it off and on.

[kain279]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by kain279:

I tried running the Nova with 12 CERSL.

Why not 12 ERML? It's a good build that is perfectly playable and is extremely deadly in the hands of someone who can aim, you just have to play with cover in mind: popping out, shooting both arms and then popping back into cover to cool off. Works perfectly well in both singleplayer and competitive multiplayer in MWO.

Heat. In this game the CERSL is SOOO good, it makes the CSPL totally useless. In MWO much the same but worse due to ghost heat and the additional heat that CERMLs had in that game for balance issues. I ran the Nova in MWO with both 12 CERSL and 12 CSPL.

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by kain279:

Damn in my opinion Gauss is GREAT in this game, especially because Jayden has the ballistic colldown pilot skill. With Heavy and Assault as well as Timberwolf and Dire Wolf affinity whenever I am in those mechs the cooldown on it is incredibly short and I like the gauss as a brawling weapon because of its lack of heat and high velocity meaning whenever I pull the trigger, that component takes 15 damage.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on the Hellbringer. It was great with the Gauss and 6 CERML combo. In retrospect I do wish I would have switched to the Timberwolf faster though since I did not accumulate enough mech XP to fully master Timberwolf, I did not get level 5 reverse speed just like I did not in the Direwolf before the campaign ended.

I ran the Hellbringer for a few missions with dual solid slug UAC5s and 5 or 6 ERMeds. But yeah when gauss gets hit after armour has been stripped it has a decent chance to explode and take the adjacent area with it.

I am very familiar with how the Gauss rifle works but to me that is such a minor drawback. Once a component is open to structure in this game that part is nearly as good as gone anyway, plus I am very used to protecting the side of my mech that is most vulnerable. I can not say for sure if I ever had a Gauss detonation in this game or not because every time I have lost a piece with one in it that piece was 1 tap away from being gone anyway. I honestly wondered if they even imported that feature.

One side effect of their bizarre decision to size the omnipod hardpoints is that on my preferred Dire Wolf build (2 x CERPPC 2 x CGAUSS) I can't have all 4 weapons in the arm. The only way for me to do it is to have 1 arm gauss 1 torso gauss, which i dislike generally for aiming reasons but in this case I put them both on the right side and my CERPPCs in the left arm. The only plus side is it gives me 1 side to present to the enemy so I up the armor on both the left arm and torso to 135. That is why I love gauss and PPC---no reason to hold your face to the enemy. Aim, fire, look away or twist to spread. With lasers you take so much return damage. With the stock Dire Wolf omnipods I was running a huge alpha strike build with 2 x Gauss and then 2 x CERLL and 6 x CERML and yeah, the strikes are HUGE but the lasers spread their damage on target and you take damage in return.

Laser vomit can be fun and efficient but I just love pinpoint damage that does not force you to stare down your opponent.