What do you do if you hate Assaults?

[MOK]

I don't like using Assault mechs. Never have, over all the battletech video games over time. Literally all of them, since the 80s. I don't want to be in a Dire Wolf. I don't want my star to be Dire Wolfs. I want to use Hellbringers and Stormcrows and maybe even, Kerensky forgive, a Firemoth or something.

But as far as I've experienced, the game is seemingly not made for piloting anything but Assaults. You fly by the first few areas of the game working up the tonnage ladder, and you leave it all behind. It's an attrition-based shooting gallery, so you simply can't keep up the necessary DPS or armor buffer to complete the shooting gallery except via fringe gameplay.

Hopefully I'm missing something here. Is there a way for the average player to enjoy this without stooping to those 100 ton poopsack chassis?

Yes I'm whining, yes, it's partially a rant. But still, honestly, am I missing something about intended game design to cater toward players who prefer not-assault chassis? I'd have thought that after seeing stuff like the balancing in BTA3062, it's apparent to anyone monkeying with game design in the battletech space that you can find ways to keep all kinds of mechs relevant and novel. Surely PGI, with all their battletech experience, have worked with this, accounted for this.
Surely.

So what am I missing?

[Clever Name]

Origineel geplaatst door MOK:

Origineel geplaatst door Jebe457:

The issue you're describing was an issue in every prior Mechwarrior, and like every prior Mechwarrior it is possible but not easy to work around it.

Yes, this is true. But I feel like it was less of an issue in Mercs. Still an issue, yes, but it wasn't quite as attrition-based as this title. I'd have expected more work on the topic in this title given the steady progress over all these past titles.

Mercs allows light/medium mechs to be used even in endgame. I can get by with the Dervish or even a Spider or Javelin.

I wouldn't feel that same level of confidence in Clans. Not by a long shot. And that's with the added ability to put way more armor on a mech than is rules-legal, something Mercs doesn't allow.

Unscientifically, just going by basic observation, I suspect that top run speed contributes more to evasion in Mercs than it does in Clans. The end result being that you simply get hit less often (provided you're always running at full speed) in Mercs, which greatly extends the lifespan of a light or medium mech that's moving at 80+ KPH.

Something like the Stormcrow moving over 100 KPH (with upgrades) should be far tankier than it is, simply because of its run speed.

Another potentially huge explanation for the disparity between survivability in both games, is that the maps in Clans tend to contain more chokepoints that impede your ability to run circles around enemies at full speed.

[Freed]

I second that something feels off about getting hit more in a small light mech moving at max speed compared to Mercs. Fighting from cover, elevation, or beyond enemy max range seems to be the way to go: landscape has infinite hp and you don't.

[Crosswind]

Mercs also suffered badly from this issue, but I agree. I think it was just plain a mistake to scale the difficulty of the game as it progressed based on upping the tonnage. At the very least, adding checkpoints and/or quick saves to missions would make it more viable to use whatever you want in any given situation. I'm not begging for the game to be easier, I've already beaten the campaign on normal, but I would love to be able to tackle late game missions in lights and mediums, or just have a full Timber Wolf star without issue. Most missions ended up being quite a slog as it is in terms of number of enemies and how much damage your squad is going to end up taking, and it only got worse as it went.

[apocal43]

Origineel geplaatst door Crosswind:

Mercs also suffered badly from this issue, but I agree. I think it was just plain a mistake to scale the difficulty of the game as it progressed based on upping the tonnage. At the very least, adding checkpoints and/or quick saves to missions would make it more viable to use whatever you want in any given situation. I'm not begging for the game to be easier, I've already beaten the campaign on normal, but I would love to be able to tackle late game missions in lights and mediums, or just have a full Timber Wolf star without issue. Most missions ended up being quite a slog as it is in terms of number of enemies and how much damage your squad is going to end up taking, and it only got worse as it went.

I always thought it would've been better break up a bunch of missions by turning them into consecutive, 0-cycle drops.

[Tritol]

I dont wanna be that idiot yelling git gud everywhere, but yeah while this game (and mercs too) have stupid difficulty scaling where "harder = 5344314113741 enemies" , you can still play this game however you want.

Played on extreme, did all the advanced objectives, using lower tonnage and stock loadouts, usually all at once and it wasnt much harder.
I hate summoner, dont like timber wolf, dont like garg or exe, I was basically playing star of novas, arctic cheetahs and hellbringers until I got to squawkhawks and direwhales.

I will say few "obvious" tips that make this game super easy.

Level up that stupid idiotic dumb necessary must have evasion. Seriously its like Dark Souls 2 adaptability but for mechs.

Make your own loadouts.
Stock loadouts are usually garbage, UAC-SLDs are broken as hell, laservomits are insta win, 9 small laser viper carried me through half of the game. Dont forget you can increase armour on your mechs, tear out every useless LRM, probe, computer and seat you have and stick half ton of armour into arms and side torsos (ignore legs and other parts) and you are immortal.

Use commands.
Pick one target, tap F1 F1, tell whole lance to attack it and it will disappear within seconds , if you let them just fight on their own they never manage to kill anything.
Sometimes you can send your lance in opposite direction to spawn camp enemies, while you go forward and trigger quest progress.

Get researches done.
There is damage reduction, that is must have if you need help, ignore trash like ecm, jumps, masc, pick one weapon type and max out dmg/cd/heat. It helps, that damage reduction is honestly insane.

Use water.
That cooling bonus from water is absolutely mad, and devs knew what they are doing, every mission with large fights have water in there, even that desert planet with that timber girl you need to protect, there is ankle high puddle that helps.
If you stand in water, you can shoot your 5PPC warhawk without stopping and never worry about overheating.

Use your range.
Dont forget you are clans, trigger new wave, walk away or leave your lancemates in the back, you can shoot down warship if you want, you can play entire missions with 100% health on your whole star, because enemies have nothing to shoot you back with.

[FisTan]

For some reason we do not have any campaign that just does not end in mass assaults in any MW games. Game plays much differently with medium mechs than assaults. If im being honest a clan medium mech offers the best Mech Warrior experience in general. Enough weapons to have fun, high enough mobility to not be limited by any obstacle. And the responsive nature of gameplay. I wish we just had a DLC campaign where we just acted as the medium recon star of the cluster, and only had access to lights and mediums but maybe even given ability to customize further.

[MOK]

Origineel geplaatst door Tritol:

I dont wanna be that idiot yelling git gud everywhere, but yeah while this game (and mercs too) have stupid difficulty scaling where "harder = 5344314113741 enemies" :stress: , you can still play this game however you want.

I feel like you're missing the point. Like you, I also finished the campaign on expert and typically didn't go that high on my tonnage(or at least, tried), and did all the basics you outlined. And after getting access to poopack chassis and trying them out, I mostly relegated them out and continued on to finish. Albeit with much greater difficulty.

But with that said, the gameplay, efficacy, and difficulty difference between when I'd drop with over ~425 tons vs when I'd drop under that was significant. Unless there was a speed component in a mission requirement(which is like 1 mission), the mission completes with less trouble and more survival the higher tonnage I had.

On one hand that's predictable: I can focus fire more damage into a single component with preferable weapons, and I can buffer up and twist out more incoming damage to soak, and expose the lance to fire for less time, since higher tonnage means lower TTK as a rule.

To be more specific: I maxed out the chassis on the hellbringer pretty much pronto, and of course grabbed all the design-mandated necessary buffs to each pilot. I'd drop one no matter what, and preferred to be in one personally, and circle strafe my guts out, weave through cover and limit my exposure, identify a target without aggro on me so I could backshot it, etc etc. Average veteran gameplay.

But when I'd drop into a warhawk or even an executioner(I do like that MASC...), with few/no chassis upgrades, I'd have far less trouble on any given mission. All the game crashes helped with that experiment, really.

So I'm saying it's not a 'git-gud' kind of thing because that would've been essentially the starting point in a balance/applicability discussion like this. Maybe you'll have a different experience, but I highly suspect you'll have greater success the heavier you go, assuming all normal advantages are sought alongside basically competent gameplay.

All that being said, I guess I'm sensing uncertainty by others in the thread about whether or not speed or other background factors like elevation or distance might affect how much the sim allows the targets to output. The game doesn't really give you much indicator. I have no clue. Honestly, that kind of thing is part of what I would've been looking forward to on this title: Mechanics that blatantly allow some special form of advantage when you play in a mobile/aggressive/speedy way. Mechanics that help push your gameplay habits to match clan-style engagements like big maneuvers and dueling(for better or for worse, per lore).

I would not expect all drop comps to the same in difficulty. I would not expect it all to be equally challenging whether you're in medium-heavy territory vs assault. But I was hoping for less of a difference, and a clearer reason why it can be actively desirable to include a light or medium. If not for pure combat reasons, then for objective-related reasons.
Personally, I could identify no advantages to that kind of variety.

[Tritol]

I understand what you mean, they made linear story driven campaign and had perfect opportunity to handcraft every mission for multiple solutions and loadouts, sneaky mechs disrupting calls for reinforcements with ecms, fast mechs rushing backlines to destroy artilery.
Instead we got "just throw 5 direwhales on any problems that pops up"

But what I meant was kinda in general, when you look just here on steam, people are complaining about sokols, about dropships, about mech loadouts, about like every other mission where you have to face more than two turrets.

But in reality the game is quite easy and while playing lights or mediums will give you no advantage with their playstyle, you can still use them without any problem and just have fun if you want to.

All merc games have similar issue, you are here to shoot mechs, light mechs are not here to scout and stuff, they are here to kill mechs, but they just kinda suck at it, compared to big mechs. Look at how many problems it caused in MWO.

[Geeves]

Any Mechwarrior game (which is all Mechwarrior games) that limit you to a single Lance/Star is going to inevitably result in being balanced for filling every slot with maximum firepower and durability. I'm not sure how or why anyone would expect anything different.

Now if ever a Mechwarrior game is made that allows the player to deploy based on battle value (hint to developers because this is a far superior system) instead of tonnage with unlimited slots for mechs to deploy, that is when you can expect to be able to field every weight class to the very end.

[Freed]

By battle value sounds pretty great tbh.

[Mikeblade]

Origineel geplaatst door Death a Barbar:

timber wolf/mad dog are decent in later missions too.

timber wolf/mad cat has always been my fav mech.
fallowed by elemental's would be cool to pilot one waiting to get this at Christmas sale like i do most stuff

[Bumble]

Elementals would need a completely standalone game, which would be F*#%ING AWESOME!

Urban warfare from an Elementals perspective, going up against Armour and Mechs? YES PLEASE!!!

[Mikeblade]

Origineel geplaatst door Bumble:

Elementals would need a completely standalone game, which would be F*#%ING AWESOME!

Urban warfare from an Elementals perspective, going up against Armour and Mechs? YES PLEASE!!!

forgot witch book it was but i read one where a dude in a elemental won a trial of position or something in one against a mech with some techno bs of whow he was using windows to reflect his shots so the mech had a hard time finding him.

[Death a Barbar]

Origineel geplaatst door Mikeblade:

forgot witch book it was but i read one where a dude in a elemental won a trial of position or something in one against a mech with some techno bs of whow he was using windows to reflect his shots so the mech had a hard time finding him.

The was during Phelan Kell's trial for the Ward bloodname, if I remember correctly he went into a building, filled it with gas and kept shooting at the opponent's mech. When the mech guy had enough and rammed the building it exploded, I think the elemental died and the pilot got burns, and he had to face Phelan next. It had be after they went back to the pentagon worlds and possibly during the ilkhan election, but I can't recall.

[JL::Jose-Juan Kenobi]

You only use Assaults on the last 3rd (or so) of the game. I just unlocked the Dire Wolf and I think there are only like 4 missions left.

And tbh, a well balanced, outfitted, leveled up lance of heavies with leveled up pilots is all you need. I still use the Mad Dog (Naomi) and the Timby.
As soon as I was unlocking Assaults, I played with them, but was still going back to the heavies.
My favorite is the Timberwolf, and all omnipods unlocked and chassis upgrades man, you can do whatever you want.

I do however, would really like to have a bigger variety of missions regarding size of mechs, so you can dust off those light and meds.

As to the title, honestly is pointless, I could ask the same question "what if I don't like light mechs? why am I forced to play with them? I only want Timberwolves and Mad Dogs."

Anyways, I hope further development introduces missions where you can bring your smaller mechs. At least I can replay in sim pod, is fun taking on assaults with a lance of Adders (my fav light)