DEVS please read this, its important!!!

[AndreizNexus]

Please make two combat modes when starting new game, one tactical mode for turn based fans and one real time greedfall 1 combat.
Please transfer Greedfall 1 combat with some improvements to Greedfall 2.
I have finished Greedfall Gold Edition GOG version and that combat was so fun, i really liked it.
Please devs don't be STUBBORN like all the devs from this industry, if you want the game to accesible and liked by ALL the people, please transfer the Greedfall 1 combat to Greedfall 2.
To all the Greedfall 1 FANS please upvote this topic so that the devs read this topic, LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN GUYS, lets make Greedfall 2 amazing. :)

[Paladin Larec]

There are plenty of fast paced button mashers out there, so you still have plenty of choices. I'm just glad we tactical fans are getting to eat well now with the industry moving back to our side of the table. DA:Origins, KOTOR 1/2, and Drakensang 1/2 were some of the best examples of modern CRPG combat I ever experienced. I'm glad it's making a return. I never finished Greedfall 1 because the combat was so boring, easy, and unimaginative. Now, to copy DA:O? I'm definitely on board and this game just got put on my wishlist.

[System7]

Originally posted by AndreizNexus:

Please make two combat modes when starting new game, one tactical mode for turn based fans and one real time greedfall 1 combat.

Im sorry to disappoint you but.. this is not happening. No way. Tell me which game from Bioware, Bethesda, CDP or Sony have two combat systems? Its too much work to have basically two combat systems and balance everything twice. Spider studio is not big developer. This is not possible.

Originally posted by AndreizNexus:

Please devs don't be STUBBORN like all the devs from this industry

I think that you are stubbord to accept simple fact that its their creative product and their decision.

Originally posted by AndreizNexus:

if you want the game to accesible and liked by ALL

This is not true. Action combat is again suited for some group of players and not all. Dont lie to yourself or others. Be honest, man.

[Singh]

Originally posted by Paladin Larec:

There are plenty of fast paced button mashers out there, so you still have plenty of choices. I'm just glad we tactical fans are getting to eat well now with the industry moving back to our side of the table. DA:Origins, KOTOR 1/2, and Drakensang 1/2 were some of the best examples of modern CRPG combat I ever experienced. I'm glad it's making a return. I never finished Greedfall 1 because the combat was so boring, easy, and unimaginative. Now, to copy DA:O? I'm definitely on board and this game just got put on my wishlist.

Tactical combat will hurt the sales of the game because by definition it's a niche genre. And while I agree that the first Greedfall's combat was boring given the improvements with Steelrising the move that makes the most sense is to iterate and improve upon what they were already developing. Switching entirely to a new system they have never implemented is likely to satisfy no one.

[System7]

Originally posted by Singh:

Tactical combat will hurt the sales of the game because by definition it's a niche genre.

Is Baldurs Gate 3 niche game? Does tactical combat hurt the sales of Baldurs Gate 3?
They just need to catch the audience of BG3 as much as possible.

[Singh]

Originally posted by System7:

Originally posted by Singh:

Tactical combat will hurt the sales of the game because by definition it's a niche genre.

Is Baldurs Gate 3 niche game? Does tactical combat hurt the sales of Baldurs Gate 3?

1) Baldurs Gate 3 is an outlier example of a tactical combat game breaking into the mainstream - it's not the rule. I'm not sure why you would think 1 example dismisses the mountains of evidence to the contrary. I own plenty of tactical Baldurs Gate 3 style games most of which mainstream players that bought Baldurs Gate 3 have never heard of nor would be interested in. Tactics combat hurts the chances for Greedfall's mainstream success - not improves them.

2) The reasons for the success of Bauldurs Gate 3 have little to do with its combat and more to do with its player choice, and story as an RPG. This is a consistent theme of commentary on the game - that people enjoy the game despite its combat not because of it.

[Paladin Larec]

Originally posted by Singh:

Originally posted by System7:

Is Baldurs Gate 3 niche game? Does tactical combat hurt the sales of Baldurs Gate 3?

1) Baldurs Gate 3 is an outlier example of a tactical combat game breaking into the mainstream - it's not the rule. I'm not sure why you would think 1 example dismisses the mountains of evidence to the contrary. I own plenty of tactical Baldurs Gate 3 style games most of which mainstream players that bought Baldurs Gate 3 have never heard of nor would be interested in. Tactics combat hurts the chances for Greedfall's mainstream success - not improves them.

2) The reasons for the success of Bauldurs Gate 3 have little to do with its combat and more to do with its player choice, and story as an RPG. This is a consistent theme of commentary on the game - that people enjoy the game despite its combat not because of it.

There's a reason the RPG Codex refers to the movement towards real-time combat in the genre as a "decline" or "downturn". Tactical combat in CRPGs was at one time completely undivorcable from the genre itself. The genre only moved to real-time because they wanted to hobby to go mainstream in the mid-to-late 2000s and they accomplished that. Now, things are going back to normal. We old 50+ year old CRPG fans have got the new entrants into the hobby interested in older CRPGs, and now they crave tactics.

[System7]

Originally posted by Singh:

it's not the rule. I'm not sure why you would think 1 example dismisses the mountains of evidence to the contrary.

I didnt said that it dismiss any other games, I said what they have to do.
Also BG3 is recent example unlike most other examples you talk about. That is important.

Originally posted by Singh:

2) The reasons for the success of Bauldurs Gate 3 have little to do with its combat and more to do with its player choice, and story as an RPG.

Ok, so now combat system is not impotant - which contradicts your opinion. Spiders have to put enough work into these elements and it will bring success. :-)

[Singh]

Originally posted by Paladin Larec:

There's a reason the RPG Codex refers to the movement towards real-time combat in the genre as a "decline" or "downturn". Tactical combat in CRPGs was at one time completely undivorcable from the genre itself.

This is just an attempt to elevate your opinion into some grand truth. It's not. RPGs have evolved for better and worse and there's lots of conversations that can be had as to what those better or worse evolutions have been. Tactics turn based overhead combat is simply a preference. There's nothing inherently more 'tactical' to it, that 3rd person combat can't achieve.

Originally posted by Paladin Larec:

We old 50+ year old CRPG fans have got the new entrants into the hobby interested in older CRPGs, and now they crave tactics.

lol wtf? Who is the "we" that "got new entrants into older CRPGS?" Baldur's Gate 3 got people interested in CRPGS due to player choice which most AAA companies have backed away from because capitalism makes it more profitable to make simpler games rather than multi-threaded story driven player choice ones. 'Tactical combat' had next to nothing to do with it.

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Originally posted by System7:

Originally posted by Singh:

it's not the rule. I'm not sure why you would think 1 example dismisses the mountains of evidence to the contrary.

I didnt said that it dismiss any other games, I said what they have to do.

As I said in the other thread - don't bother to respond if I have to piece together your broken English and poor grammar to figure out what you're trying to say.

What Spiders has to do is what is most responsible for ensuring the success of Greedfall 2 - that being - not changing what already made their previous game successful (3rd person action combat). Coincidentally iterating on existing game design is what has translated into grand successes for many games and studios. Borderlands1 is trash next to Borderlands 2, The witcher is trash next to the Witcher 2, Portal/Portal2, Half-life/Half-life2, Left for Dead 1 vs 2, The Batman Arkham games, the Civilization games - on and on. Changing Greedfall's combat is a flatly stupid idea appreciated by self-interested people that do not have the game's success at heart.

Changing the whole combat system to a niche interest like tactics combat represents a risk Spiders shouldn't take and something the majority of fans of Greedfall 1 don't want. (But again feel free to link threads in the GreedFall 1 forums that demand 'tactics crpg combat' for evidence that I'm wrong)

Originally posted by System7:

Also BG3 is recent example unlike most other examples you talk about. That is important.

1) What's important is understanding people's affinity for BG3 is not it's 'tactics combat' but rather it's the RPG story driven player choice narrative. I'll repeat since you're either slow or obtuse: people enjoy BG3 despite its combat not because of it.

2) BG3 is an outlier. There are far more examples of tactics based rpgs failing to become mainstream rather than success stories. Successful mainstream RPGs use action combat. Even Final Fantasy has moved away from its long held turn based systems.

Originally posted by System7:

Originally posted by Singh:

2) The reasons for the success of Bauldurs Gate 3 have little to do with its combat and more to do with its player choice, and story as an RPG.

Ok, so now combat system is not impotant - which contradicts your opinion. Spiders have to put enough work into these elements and it will bring success. :-)

Obviously combat is not of central importance to BG3's success yes. That will not be the same for Greedfall 2 where the majority of players expect and want combat to remain the same or improve upon the system that was established in Greedfall1. It's not really that hard to understand for those that aren't obfuscating dishonest trolls.

Finally it's important to point out BG3 had 400+ people developing it and Larian had been iterating on its version of tactics combat for 15+ years through the Divinity series of games. Larian had the people and knowledge to make BG3's 'tactical' combat as polished as that style of combat has ever been in a game. Spiders does not have 400 people nor has it been making 'tactics combat' in their games for 15+ years - so those cheering for them to move away from the 3rd person combat they have experience with are essentially rooting for a train-wreck.