Grind has killed it

[bobbie046]

Think I'm just about done with Pax. Crafting XP is ludicrous, meaning weeks of grind for resources only to have to throw everything away, no chance to salvage, and it would help if there were any guides to tell players what to target to advance, as in building new crafting stations, but there is nothing

[saltan]

grind is real, but does look like next update brings salvage, and o boy does the game need it, or a trash vendor to make a few coins, as for xp its all over the place, and i think they are trying to work out the right exp lvl, crafting bonus buff need to change to exp buff instead of lvl by 1 for 1hr

[jcodbf2]

Grinding would not be so bad if crafting weren't a convoluted mess disguised as " depth ".

OG UO was the best game for crafters for a reason. It was a loooong grind but you also did not have to make 100 things to craft / assemble a sword or breastplate or ect ( exaggerating for to make a point ). No idea what it is like these days.

[a sentient mcnugget]

It's supposed to be that way. Go play Wurm Online to see how it's done.

What's gonna happen if everyone can become a Grandmaster blacksmith in 1 week of macroing? It's going to tank the player-driven economy. So many grandmaster armors and swords out there flooding the market that prices tank and there is no incentive for new players to become a Grandmaster blacksmith.

You need the grind. It's not for everyone, that's for sure but there needs to be grind.

The solution is to add gameplay loops other than just raising skills. So people can take a breather from the grind. Quests, Seasonal events where people can have fun and not worry about raising skills.

[bobbie046]

@put dispenser here. Talking out your ass, grind is always a part of crafting, but Pax has taken it to ludicrous levels. After more than 30 years playing games with crafting I can confidently state that no player likes grinding, and games that didn't find the right balance have died and been forgotten. Games like WoW (yeah I said WoW) have a good balance with damn few grand masters, as at high skill levels you need unique items that have to be taken from the cold dead corpse of some hairy great wosname that gives any hero all the fight they care for. Guild Wars 2 is another and the developers would do well to look at both those crafting systems, yes they have some grind but you can see a steady improvement which Pax simply doesn't give. And both those games have large and dedicated player bases.
And before you suggest I p!ss of and play them, I have at least a dozen games MMO and single player that I rotate through, because all games get stale and you need a change. As a final comment Pax is the ONLY crafting system that you cannot salvage and recycle crafted goods, and that alone would vastly improve the crafting system. As a final note NOBODY crafts just for the sake of crafting, they do it to acquire the armour and weapons to adventure in the world and at lvl 16 in weapon and armour smithing I still cannot take on the local inquisition and lost souls near my camp

[Pepe_Le_Pede]

We should all be able to gather resources for two minutes and have max skill in all professions in less than 10 hours game play time. This is the way...

LMAO

[a sentient mcnugget]

Originally posted by bobbie046:

@put dispenser here. Talking out your ass, grind is always a part of crafting, but Pax has taken it to ludicrous levels. After more than 30 years playing games with crafting I can confidently state that no player likes grinding, and games that didn't find the right balance have died and been forgotten. Games like WoW (yeah I said WoW) have a good balance with damn few grand masters, as at high skill levels you need unique items that have to be taken from the cold dead corpse of some hairy great wosname that gives any hero all the fight they care for. Guild Wars 2 is another and the developers would do well to look at both those crafting systems, yes they have some grind but you can see a steady improvement which Pax simply doesn't give. And both those games have large and dedicated player bases.
And before you suggest I p!ss of and play them, I have at least a dozen games MMO and single player that I rotate through, because all games get stale and you need a change. As a final comment Pax is the ONLY crafting system that you cannot salvage and recycle crafted goods, and that alone would vastly improve the crafting system. As a final note NOBODY crafts just for the sake of crafting, they do it to acquire the armour and weapons to adventure in the world and at lvl 16 in weapon and armour smithing I still cannot take on the local inquisition and lost souls near my camp

People do craft for the sake of crafting and for the sake of building.Please go download Wurm Online, a true sandbox MMO, it's free to play but skills stay capped under 20.

In any other MMO, crafting is just an afterthought. In Pax Dei, crafting/building is the game.
It's comparing apple to oranges. You don't know what you're talking about.

[SuddenImpact]

The grind is garbage and only appeals to a very small player base. Oh look, Pax has less than 600 players on average daily.

[Pluto]

Originally posted by put dispenser here:

It's supposed to be that way. Go play Wurm Online to see how it's done.

What's gonna happen if everyone can become a Grandmaster blacksmith in 1 week of macroing? It's going to tank the player-driven economy. So many grandmaster armors and swords out there flooding the market that prices tank and there is no incentive for new players to become a Grandmaster blacksmith.

You need the grind. It's not for everyone, that's for sure but there needs to be grind.

The solution is to add gameplay loops other than just raising skills. So people can take a breather from the grind. Quests, Seasonal events where people can have fun and not worry about raising skills.

you need players to have a player driven economy first and foremost if the 4 people that are grinding have nobody to sell to, then it will fail regardless.


I think the solution would be more along the lines of extremely rare recipes that only 1 or 2 players can make at any 1 time each player being only able to hold lets say 3 to 5 super rare recipes at any one time, meaning they would need to "forget" one to learn another.
Don't make the grind tedious, make the items that are great rare so everyone can have a "I have this to trade for that" economy

[saltan]

even a simple QTE to boost the progress bar would improve crafting, get it right blue bar gets a boost get it wrong red bar gets a boost, don't press at all, no buff/debuff.

crafting does need looking at, but plenty of time before game out to see what they do.

[neuritico]

Originally posted by bobbie046:

@put dispenser here.

Check steam profiles of those who are writing. ;)

[Gears]

Craft Grinding isnt terrible if you know what to craft, when you do it takes less than an hour to get a skill over lvl 20, which opens up a good bit under that skill. The game is shallow right now, but every update seems to bring more, we've got markets now which is nice to help newer unclanned solo players a chance at quicker, higher tiered gear to help soften the crafting grind. Speaking of wurm online, I don't miss the days of having an inventory of 20 swords and spending days to grind out a skill point imping items..

[Vulcannon]

The problem is the medieval setting itself. Everyday life in the Middle Ages consisted of work, work, work. Opportunities to have fun were rare and very limited. There were few ways to pass the time pleasantly. There will always be a lack of variety. You could include mini-games in the form of competitions and jousting games, archery competitions, races with or without horses, swimming races and aiming at a target with stones. There won't be much more exciting stuff to do. Work, build, talk to others, fight each other and trade. But that's about it. If you're expecting to get an incredible amount out of the setting, you're wrong.

So they have little choice but to let you grind. That's exactly what was done in the Middle Ages. That's why many developers of medieval games end up tending to bring magic and fantasy into the games, just to have more freedom to entertain the players. You have to realize that the realistic approach doesn't offer much more than exploring, building, working, selling and surviving. If you are looking for more, it will be difficult to keep you happy.

[Ironside]

I dont mind the grind.
I think there is a lull in the game right now because the rumor of a full wipe is coming. So why grind right before a wipe?

[Pepe_Le_Pede]

Imagine thinking a game trying to base its experience off social interaction and player-driven economy could even fathom being successful with little to no grind. Niche or not this isn't a solo-offline mode game. Go find other games that give you everything simply by clicking.

[Lestat2150]

I'm currently at 16 in armour and yeah, its getting a bit excessive. Granted, I'm hearing its in the several million between 30-40 in any skill. That means crafting thousands of the same item and dumping it on the floor. That salvage update can't come soon enough. But yeah, at that level, the grind is literally hours a day just doing that, to level 1 level.

Now this is what I appreciate about the game though. You have to set goals for that day. Few hours leveling an skill, maybe a few hours building. The game is meant to be the one and only game you play every day. That's why the grind is so excessive. Unfortunately there are just too many games out there now that request too much of our time daily to make this realistic. I dont have 14 hours a day to play the game. Maybe 4. WHich is still fine. You can do alot in 4 hours of gameplay a day. BUT....that just means this will be a niche game with a low population in a game that is socially driven.