Talking some basics of price vs cost.

[Ostego! God Of War!]

OK, so company claims they can put up a server in as little as 30 minutes when things start to get going. This tells me that either they have a warehouse of parts available to just slap one together, or they are renting.

Average cost of a single server dedicated to handle one instance of a game 24/7 about $1k to #1.2k depending on how good of a deal you get. Add a starter fee of a couple hundred for each server, and we can be very conservative and say $1,400 per server per year. Now I am told each server will be limited to 7,000 players max. Lets say the subscription fee is $20 per month. Thats an intake of $140,000 per server, per month, or 1,680,000 per year, to cover a $1,400 server fee you can cover with the first 14 founders elite packs per server, for an entire year.

And this subscription fee you want to use to rent the users plots in the game on a per plot basis, so the elite people will have to pay what? 6 times more?

And you think this is not a scam? When the servers drop in users, how are you going to combine the servers to consolidate population. or are you going to have some over populated servers, and some servers with a fraction of the people paying for plots that nobody sees?

No. Just no.
Games like WoW have subscription fees, yes. Just if I cancel in January, and rejoin in November, all my stuff is still there.
What will the players that are playing your game have when they come back? A landlord? Just no.

[Phobos]

Seems OP is also claiming BS?

[jadenedaj on x]

Math aside, I have no idea how they are going to consolidate servers.
The population will easily drop 90% in the first month after EA release, then what, they will pay to keep dozens of near-empty servers going? That's insane.

[Phobos]

Originally posted by (Jaden) AceAngel TTV:

Math aside, I have no idea how they are going to consolidate servers.
The population will easily drop 90% in the first month after EA release, then what, they will pay to keep dozens of near-empty servers going? That's insane.

Can't be; ti's is running on eve 2.0 expectations will have millions of subs until star citizen is released

[Balmung]

Originally posted by Phobos:

Seems OP is also claiming BS?

Yep, pretty much. Just the fact that he thinks of hardware when he hears the word "server" made me laugh hard. When they need a extra world server, all what they do are some database entries and starting some new software server instances for the new world server. This servers than runs at a cloud service like AWS (Star Citizen use AWS) so there is no need to build hardware, it is already there. AWS didn't work on a "what we need basis", they have a large amount of server power in reserve in case a customer suddenly needs more computing power.

He thinks an MMO, as Pax Dei is one, runs on a simple server like ARK/Valheim does. The truth is, there is 1 server alone for the login, then there is at least one database server and many world servers. I'm sure only one single map of a world server (there are 5 maps including the PvP map) have more than one server.

So his math is off and not only a litte bit. It is so off that it hurts.

For comparison only. The server costs (with traffic an all) of Star Citizen is around 800.000-1.000.000$... each month(!). Pax Dei is surely by far not that high, but it shows how much up that costs can go on an MMO.

[Balmung]

Originally posted by (Jaden) AceAngel TTV:

Math aside, I have no idea how they are going to consolidate servers.
The population will easily drop 90% in the first month after EA release, then what, they will pay to keep dozens of near-empty servers going? That's insane.

I don't think it will bei 90%, for that there is not enough hype about this MMO.

The main problem is, that many player didn't unterstand in what state Pax Dei is. It is an early alpha with lot of missing features in the work yet. So there will be sure players who get into it with the wrong expectation.

But even with them on the side. On every start of an MMO, and EA or Alpha didn't mean here much, the players spend the first days the most time in it. So many players want to play on the same time as others which increase the current online player base much. But as always that goes down after some days, when the players stop investing many hours every day and it goes back to a healthy level. Then the players play more and more at different times, which makes the game world seem emptier, even though there are still a lot of people playing during the day, just not at the same time.

That alone makes it feel like the game world is becoming emptier, even without players who have stopped playing it. And just getting that right in an MMO so that the game world still feels alive enough is a real challenge.

This is often the reason for the server problems and the long login queues, so that enough players are still on the server world after a week.

So yes, I see there also a huge problem with that on Pax Dei, even without the regular amount of players who generally stop playing after some weeks.

So far I read they want to compensate that with instancing for the first days/weeks. That could work, but could be annoying in the first days of play, when players are on the same spot but in different instances. I guess that will only happen on solo players, parties/clans will be on the same instances, if they have done that mechanic right.

I can only hope they didn't open new world servers too easily. On the other side, they could learn from the EA release for the full release to make it there better.

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Balmung:

Originally posted by Phobos:

Seems OP is also claiming BS?

Yep, pretty much. Just the fact that he thinks of hardware when he hears the word "server" made me laugh hard. When they need a extra world server, all what they do are some database entries and starting some new software server instances for the new world server. This servers than runs at a cloud service like AWS (Star Citizen use AWS) so there is no need to build hardware, it is already there. AWS didn't work on a "what we need basis", they have a large amount of server power in reserve in case a customer suddenly needs more computing power.

He thinks an MMO, as Pax Dei is one, runs on a simple server like ARK/Valheim does. The truth is, there is 1 server alone for the login, then there is at least one database server and many world servers. I'm sure only one single map of a world server (there are 5 maps including the PvP map) have more than one server.

So his math is off and not only a litte bit. It is so off that it hurts.

For comparison only. The server costs (with traffic an all) of Star Citizen is around 800.000-1.000.000$... each month(!). Pax Dei is surely by far not that high, but it shows how much up that costs can go on an MMO.

Of course and (s)he probably things every instance is hardware. Furthermore, QQ on "renting" was probably the fulcrum of the joke. We all rent our servers nowadays unless you have them onsite and even them not every instance thereof is hardware. LOL.

[Ostego! God Of War!]

Phobos, trolling since 2012. Go away P hobo. If they were doing in house servers, they would have them up and ready to open. 30 minutes is a long time to turn on a server that is already running empty. SO of course they are renting, which has a set up fee for each server depending on the company. If you were not playing devils advocate in every post you make for the last 12 years I would be interested in your thought process, but every time I see your name you are just trolling along. Its sad that you play white knight for the scams just to stand out. Get back in your hole heathen.

[Ostego! God Of War!]

Originally posted by (Jaden) AceAngel TTV:

Math aside, I have no idea how they are going to consolidate servers.
The population will easily drop 90% in the first month after EA release, then what, they will pay to keep dozens of near-empty servers going? That's insane.

Exactly. You have plot A on server 1. Bob has plot A on server 2. Pete has plot A on server 3, and they consolidate them? Who gets plot A? They paid for it every month, so do they fake a server crash or plot wipe to get everyone to take whatever? Do they force move people to other plots against their will even though they pay for it? I bet P hobo has a plan. He can troll his way through everything.

[IONSTORM]

As a person who hosted Rust Servers for many many years, I had about 8 different games on one server and it was the smoothest rust server around. I was paying about £120 a month for the server. With inflation that's about £200. It doesn't cost £1000+ to host a game unless you're going for bonkers hardware.

Not even giga big Empyrion servers use 1k+/month servers. And Empyrion is a much bigger game than this will ever be (with over 100k planets).

Edit wait you think £1k per year for that many players. Nope it'll be more.

[jadenedaj on x]

Originally posted by Ostego! God Of War!:

Originally posted by (Jaden) AceAngel TTV:

Math aside, I have no idea how they are going to consolidate servers.
The population will easily drop 90% in the first month after EA release, then what, they will pay to keep dozens of near-empty servers going? That's insane.

Exactly. You have plot A on server 1. Bob has plot A on server 2. Pete has plot A on server 3, and they consolidate them? Who gets plot A? They paid for it every month, so do they fake a server crash or plot wipe to get everyone to take whatever? Do they force move people to other plots against their will even though they pay for it? I bet P hobo has a plan. He can troll his way through everything.

My solution would be to put everyone's stuff into a "moving box" where you can freely replace everything from your plot onto a new plot on a server you are moved to.

I see no other option really, you are right, multiple people will have the same plot area on different servers.

[Rhoklaw]

A server needed to support 1000's of players is more like $4000-6000 a month.

[Stinboi]

thats my biggest issue and why i wont play, sub is tied to plot so you forced to stay subbed all the time, even when your on breake/not activly playing.

Make sub tied to players and plot to some ingame currency so you can keep it alive when not playing, and i will reconsider.

Feels like a cash grab game, they eitrher forcing you to play in large group or pay several sub so you can have space to build more then just a small house.

I dont see a way they can combine servers without issues when its open world building like this, so you prob end up even have to rebuild or play on a low pop server.

[jadenedaj on x]

Originally posted by Stinboi:

thats my biggest issue and why i wont play, sub is tied to plot so you forced to stay subbed all the time, even when your on breake/not activly playing.

Make sub tied to players and plot to some ingame currency so you can keep it alive when not playing, and i will reconsider.

I dont see a way they can combine servers without issues when its open world building like this, so you prob end up even have to rebuild or play on a low pop server.

What is the difference?
Time = Work a job for Real life $
Time = Play ingame for Ingame Gold

Either way you are spending time to buy plot space

[Stinboi]

Originally posted by (Jaden) AceAngel TTV:

Originally posted by Stinboi:

thats my biggest issue and why i wont play, sub is tied to plot so you forced to stay subbed all the time, even when your on breake/not activly playing.

Make sub tied to players and plot to some ingame currency so you can keep it alive when not playing, and i will reconsider.

I dont see a way they can combine servers without issues when its open world building like this, so you prob end up even have to rebuild or play on a low pop server.

What is the difference?
Time = Work a job for Real life $
Time = Play ingame for Ingame Gold

Either way you are spending time to buy plot space

Wurm online is a good example on how it should be, open world building MMO where you sub to character but can also buy ingame currency(bought for real money) that you use for upkeep for plots/deeds, bigger plot, more upkeep
1 month upkeep is cheaper then 1 month sub .(depending on size)

So if they did it something like that i would prob play.

What do you think will happen when people need to "start over", building everytime from scratch/loose everything thye gather earlier etc? They will quit, or do you think everyone will keep subbed all the time? life happens, and then its less likely they will come back.

I understand they will clear up unused plots to make the server "cleaner" but i also think they loose alot of players that way.

[jadenedaj on x]

^ This is easily fixed with the "moving box" approach, just have all the plot items saved and you can replace them all when you come back