The Narrator in Happily Ever After

[Shantara]

I did not expect that to happen after selecting [Slay the Princess] at the end of the route. It was one of my favorite scenes in the entire game. Well done!

[ivanything43]

Dude, I did the same thing. I was planning on doing multiple playthroughs so I was gonna go back and to do the good ending so I chose [Slay the Princess] and The Narrator said “are you sure”. I was already pretty sad playing through the route but that line broke me.
And then if you follow through the princess says “It’s finally over”. Safe to say I was pretty depressed after playing through that route.

[hi]

i didn't even really pay much attention to it when i first played that route lol

but after playing through it again today, it was very interesting.
Oh, and guess what I found:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/29931162311650157/B457EC1010186FD214EB2C9B59272FC6B7877F1D/
If you killed Happily Ever After, a new question pops up when confronting The Narrator, which mentions one of The Narrators you encountered having second thoughts about slaying The Princess.

[MrGrudge]

Yep I like how that is the route that finally breaks the Narrator's spirit.

Originally posted by hi:

If you killed Happily Ever After, a new question pops up when confronting The Narrator, which mentions one of The Narrators you encountered having second thoughts about slaying The Princess.

I got that question even though I didn't slay her, I think it is simply unlocked by the chapter itself.

[hi]

Originally posted by MrGrudge:

Yep I like how that is the route that finally breaks the Narrator's spirit.

Originally posted by hi:

If you killed Happily Ever After, a new question pops up when confronting The Narrator, which mentions one of The Narrators you encountered having second thoughts about slaying The Princess.

I got that question even though I didn't slay her, I think it is simply unlocked by the chapter itself.

hmph
that makes it slightly less interesting

[RenWyvern]

Originally posted by hi:

Originally posted by MrGrudge:

Yep I like how that is the route that finally breaks the Narrator's spirit.



I got that question even though I didn't slay her, I think it is simply unlocked by the chapter itself.

hmph
that makes it slightly less interesting

Nah, I think it's still interesting. You still have awareness that his dream of a "perfect world" isn't as appealing as he thought, and yet this version of him still scoffs in the face of his other self who actually experienced it.
Though, freeing Happily Ever After was my fifth route on my first Pristine Cut playthrough, so going straight from a narrator who has seen the truth and wants you and the princess to go free to a narrator who scoffs at the very idea he could be wrong hit hard

[Shantara]

Originally posted by RenWyvern:

Originally posted by hi:

hmph
that makes it slightly less interesting

Nah, I think it's still interesting. You still have awareness that his dream of a "perfect world" isn't as appealing as he thought, and yet this version of him still scoffs in the face of his other self who actually experienced it.
Though, freeing Happily Ever After was my fifth route on my first Pristine Cut playthrough, so going straight from a narrator who has seen the truth and wants you and the princess to go free to a narrator who scoffs at the very idea he could be wrong hit hard

I thought it was also a very neat illustration of the difference between the Hero and the Princess on one side, and the Narrator on the other. The various instances of the Narrator are limited in their perception to the individual worlds they inhabit, and cannot integrate different viewpoints, knowledge and experience from his other counterparts, unlike the main metadimensional couple. And also how the "main" Narrator who is opposing the Princess representing the change, is himself a static character unwilling to change even when confronted with the fact that one of his other selves did

[hi]

Originally posted by RenWyvern:

Originally posted by hi:

hmph
that makes it slightly less interesting

Nah, I think it's still interesting. You still have awareness that his dream of a "perfect world" isn't as appealing as he thought, and yet this version of him still scoffs in the face of his other self who actually experienced it.
Though, freeing Happily Ever After was my fifth route on my first Pristine Cut playthrough, so going straight from a narrator who has seen the truth and wants you and the princess to go free to a narrator who scoffs at the very idea he could be wrong hit hard

i said "slightly"

[brickey.8]

He owns up to no longer believing in his grand future whether you try to slay her or not, so it makes sense for both to produce that option. The only way out of that chapter where he doesn't reach that conclusion is if you and the princess agree not to let the last torch burn out.

[hi]

Originally posted by brickey.8:

He owns up to no longer believing in his grand future whether you try to slay her or not, so it makes sense for both to produce that option. The only way out of that chapter where he doesn't reach that conclusion is if you and the princess agree not to let the last torch burn out.

And even then, he probably doesn't reach the conclusion there because he doesn't get a chance to before the world unravels again.

[ℓyra]

This version of narrator made me feel bad for him.
I even wished he could be happy at some point without makin us killin our beloved.

[Gaming Gamer]

I found this quite interesting. Like, all this time, the Narrator wanted the princess to be dead so he could have eternal life, only for this version of him to be the one realizing that it would come with endless repetitiveness, which would eventually take the joy of living forever. It was a depressing route, yes, but if you ask me, it's one of the best you can find in this game.

[The Debauchery]

I've always hated the Narrator. He is a representation of arrogant ignorance, overwhelmingly confident and also completely wrong, desperately trying to push his terrible ideal even if he is too clueless to realise what is wrong with it.
The entire Happily Ever After scenario is a clear deconstruction of his personal ideal, and it breaks down so easily that even he accepts it..... except then he is discontinued and the next version of him is reset back to ignorance again. The perfect example of what it is like trying to deal with opinionated idiots: even by some miracle if you manage to convince one of them, all the rest are still clinging to their faults.

Just to pick apart the dynamic of the game....
#1. If the Construct dies, the basic scenario and the Narrator reset and a Voice is added.
#2. Once the Construct is in the cabin, neither Construct nor Princess can leave unless they leave together.
#3. The Princess is whatever she is believed to be by the Voices. The Narrator includes the Decider in this, but the Decider obviously has no power to change the Princess since the Voices effectively force her form.
#4. The events that take place in and around the cabin are determined by narration. The Narrator repeatedly claims to only be stating things that happen, but it is demonstrated on multiple occasions that simply stating that something happens is enough to make it happen.
#5. After a few resets, the Shifting Mound claims the individual princess regardless. She also forcibly prevents any course of action that would lead back to a path already trodden.

Amidst all of this, the Narrator wants the Construct to kill the princess (who doesn't even stay dead unless all the Voices agree she is dead)... and then wait forever (which varies in possibility from one scenario to the next based on whether or not the Construct is agreed to be eternal or a normal organism). In other words his chosen outcome is like playing Jenga while all the blocks are balanced on a knife edge. i.e. The Construct has to wait forever without dying, without succumbing to their own biology, without stepping outside, without getting overpowered by the Voices, and without the Voices believing for even a second that the Princess might not be dead.
i.e. It is obviously logically unsustainable. This can be determined without even experiencing it if one has any understanding of the rules of the game.
Therefore what the Narrator wants is utterly impossible from the get-go ....

... and there is ONLY ONE scenario where we can actually convince him of that.... only for him to immediately forget because he resets.


Yeah... basically... screw the Narrator.

[brickey.8]

Well to be fair, the narrator definitely had no reason to expect that the Shifting Mound would erase your memory and loop things back to the beginning, or even that it would be able to swoop in and grab the Princess at the last second. From what he knew setting things up that was all out of left field. Things resetting when the bird dies was planned, but it was a backup plan that he was hoping he'd never have to use.

His actual mistake was just wildly overestimating how inclined the player would be to listen to and trust him. If you do exactly what he says his victory is 100% guaranteed, and you're perfectly capable of staying in the cabin forever if you want. There's just so many chances to deviate from his advice, since talking to the Princess at all gives her enough rope to hang you with. Plus his "reward" is something he should have been able to predict most people wouldn't want.

[Rallania]

I love that the Narrator is forced to confront reality in this chapter, and I really like how HEA falls into the 'fairy tale' aspect of the overall route (The Hero and the Princess, The Damsel, Happily Ever After). Like, the Damsel's chapter is literally a stereotype thought into existence by LQ (the Princess and the Smitten reflect this, as funny as our boi is he is defined by his fawning for the Damsel here and nothing else), and in theory HEA is the Smitten's definition of what that stereotypical fairy tale ending looks like as that is what it usually looks like in storybooks (at least not the Brothers' Grimm ones or older version).

Where it goes wrong is that in getting to HEA, the Princess becomes more complex than her Damsel counterpart because you ignore what she actually wants (no matter how you get there, she will always say that she doesn't know you, which brings in a 'real' aspect to your relationship with her, therefore disrupting the stereotype she embodies). In order for HEA to be a 'good' ending for anyone, they HAVE to be a character within a storybook, which is impossible for LQ (the Narrator made them that way) and becomes impossible for the Princess. It's a never ending hell because real-life doesn't work that way, and I think the Narrator realises that, since his plan was literally to come to the same conclusion except Brothers' Grimm style. I think it's very fitting that the Narrator realises his mistake here and not in other chapters (like Thorn) because it forces him to consider the situation as a person first and not as his title, and realise that's what he's doing (he loses his composure when he gets desperate and acts beyond his title in other chapters as well, but refuses to acknowledge that he's being a mortal prick and not an omniscient one).

The dude is humbled no matter what you choose here, slaying the princess--if Shifty wasn't able to intervene--is essentially a massive 'be careful what you wish for' that gets understood way too late to stop it, and THAT is the best comeuppance that could've occurred in my opinion.

[ivanything43]

Originally posted by The Debauchery:

I've always hated the Narrator. He is a representation of arrogant ignorance, overwhelmingly confident and also completely wrong, desperately trying to push his terrible ideal even if he is too clueless to realise what is wrong with it.
The entire Happily Ever After scenario is a clear deconstruction of his personal ideal, and it breaks down so easily that even he accepts it..... except then he is discontinued and the next version of him is reset back to ignorance again. The perfect example of what it is like trying to deal with opinionated idiots: even by some miracle if you manage to convince one of them, all the rest are still clinging to their faults.

I disagree, the Narrator was a man who was terrified of death and did all He could to make His dream a reality. Being scared of death is VERY understandable, it's not hard to imagine someone who would go GREAT lengths to eradicate it. And the Narrator found a way to finally do it. The only way He could end death was to be as focused on His goal as possible. The only reason He is stubborn is because He's stubborn to YOU. You cannot understand death, you will never understand death, you are a god, nothing you say will ever convince Him He is wrong because your opinion on death does not matter. "You cannot die, so you cannot understand the object horror of dying." The only way He was able to accept He was wrong was to live his dream out Himself (by proxy technically but whatever).

Originally posted by The Debauchery:

Just to pick apart the dynamic of the game....
#1. If the Construct dies, the basic scenario and the Narrator reset and a Voice is added.
#2. Once the Construct is in the cabin, neither Construct nor Princess can leave unless they leave together.
#3. The Princess is whatever she is believed to be by the Voices. The Narrator includes the Decider in this, but the Decider obviously has no power to change the Princess since the Voices effectively force her form.
#4. The events that take place in and around the cabin are determined by narration. The Narrator repeatedly claims to only be stating things that happen, but it is demonstrated on multiple occasions that simply stating that something happens is enough to make it happen.
#5. After a few resets, the Shifting Mound claims the individual princess regardless. She also forcibly prevents any course of action that would lead back to a path already trodden.

Amidst all of this, the Narrator wants the Construct to kill the princess (who doesn't even stay dead unless all the Voices agree she is dead)... and then wait forever (which varies in possibility from one scenario to the next based on whether or not the Construct is agreed to be eternal or a normal organism). In other words his chosen outcome is like playing Jenga while all the blocks are balanced on a knife edge. i.e. The Construct has to wait forever without dying, without succumbing to their own biology, without stepping outside, without getting overpowered by the Voices, and without the Voices believing for even a second that the Princess might not be dead.
i.e. It is obviously logically unsustainable. This can be determined without even experiencing it if one has any understanding of the rules of the game.
Therefore what the Narrator wants is utterly impossible from the get-go ....

... and there is ONLY ONE scenario where we can actually convince him of that.... only for him to immediately forget because he resets.


Yeah... basically... screw the Narrator.

I don't understand why the Construct has to work perfectly for it to be done at all. The possibility alone of eradicating the most horrifying concept known to man is enough alone to at least try. And bro, He split apart the cycle of life and death, that's awesome, He deserves credit for how much He was able to do to accomplish his mission. A mission that forced Him to sacrifice himself, so not even He would be able to see His dream come true.
He really tried to make the construct work, and it's impressive that it's able to do what it was supposed to at all. I don't know how He was supposed to know any deviation would make completing the goal impossible. Gods are incomprehensible, it's not really possible to know how it was going to go. And even then, He had contingencies to counteract failed attempts. The Construct was done well, maybe not as well as it could've been done but still.

But to agree with you, I don't think the Narrator was right about his goal. Death is necessary and it's not worth mellowing out everything in life just for immortality. Eternal living is a fate worse than death.

Originally posted by The Debauchery:

#3. The Princess is whatever she is believed to be by the Voices. The Narrator includes the Decider in this, but the Decider obviously has no power to change the Princess since the Voices effectively force her form.

Somewhat unrelated; no, the Decider's thoughts have full control over her. The voices ARE you. If you chose to lock her away, that's because you were scared and paranoid (according to the game) so you get the voice of the Paranoid. You created that voice by your thoughts and actions, in turn transforming the princess. The voices are reflections of YOUR thoughts and actions.