The Narrator is a Bird (literally?)

[ivanything43]

I always wondered why the long quiet was a bird creature, and why the narrator showed himself as a bird. I knew it was either that the narrator's form influenced the long quiet's form or the other way around, and it probably makes more sense intuitively to have a bird be converted into a bird monster instead of a bird monster god making a regular bird. But where did the concept of birds even come from at all? For me this was a big revelation, but maybe I'm just dumb and it was obvious but the narrator never had to be a person.

The narrator never referred to himself as a human or person, only "mortal" at least from what I remember. So I think it would make a LOT of sense that the narrator IS a bird, literally (at least was a bird before he died). The game dabbles a lot in metaphor so that's what I assumed when seeing bird like imagery, but I also wanted to know the literal story of what happened and why things are the way they are.

It also thematically makes sense for the narrator to be a bird, specifically a crow because the Narrator was there to see the end of time itself, death of everyone. That's literally a crow's thing, they are usually seen around dead things.

But I dunno, maybe that was obvious or I'm completely wrong.

[Lanonade]

I like your interpretation a lot! Unfortunately we'll probably never have an explanation on how exactly things went down due to the narrator not being the main character and also being Secretive as Hell. I think that the narrator's appearance is left intentionally vague so people can either take it as face value aka "the narrator lived in a world where birds were an intelligent/dominant species / this one bird was so scared to die that it imprisoned gods" or a more metaphorical "the purpose of this device is to kill death, and crows/ravens signal doom and death". I believe the majority of animals that represent death are birds? Not sure on that.

My personal interpretation is that the narrator was taking on enough of TLQ's appearance for himself to 'blend in' with the Voices. The voices clearly know he's not one of them, but they're willing to tolerate him as long as he contributes something or appears to have their wellbeing in mind: he's similar enough to be included, but different enough that they're quick to point out his otherness. The narrator is an echo, after all, and it's unlikely that he has enough of 'himself' left to influence his form. All the narrator can say about himself is that he was terrified enough of death that he found a way to split and trap a god's pieces. It could mean that he's just too proud to open up to TLQ in the mirror scene, but I'm of the belief that the only thing he has left is his purpose. An echo repeats just enough for you to recognize yourself, but you know it's not you. The narrator shows enough of TLQ for TLQ to look at him and go "you're not me, but you seem to fit here".

edit: also it's important to point out that when the narrator calls himself 'mortal', it's with the focus that TLQ and Shifty are not, they are something fundamentally different from what the narrator is. the narrator goes out of his way throughout the game to establish that he is not similar to the princess or player, as in his mind the fact that an immortal cannot die makes their suffering less terrible than a mortal being's suffering. it's class-based dehumanization, more or less, with the classes being "can die" and "can't die"

[hi]

alt title: big fat thick spoiler right there for all the world to see

[Kazzius]

The Narrator ain't a bird though. I feel like I've got a good idea of what he is or appears as, but there's no way I can say it without massive spoilers. Also, I could just be wrong.


The Narrator is the mirror. Yes, that one you see every time you go into the cabin. The Narrator tells you the mirror isn't there either because he doesn't want you finding out or because he (being the mirror) can't see himself.

We know that the Long Quiet manifests as a bird within the construct (albeit a very strange, anthropomorphic one that has hands and teeth), so when you as Quiet look in the mirror, what do you see? Yourself, reflected back at you. You don't see what's IN a mirror because all a mirror does is reflect what looks into it.

Each mirror you see is one instance of the overall Narrator, and after your dealings with a particular Princess are done, the mirror you see at the 'end' before going to see Shifty again is a signal that this particular Narrator has reached its limit.

It isn't until the final mirror shatters that we see what might be considered the Master Narrator, the source from which all the instances were copied - and he himself is a copy of a person long dead. He's essentially an AI that was left behind to run the construct's simulation loop, although he apparently GREATLY underestimated just how powerful both you and Shifty are.

You might notice, in the final ending where you go back to the cabin, you don't see the mirror anymore. The construct still exists, but the simulation is over. The Hero even comments on the Narrator definitely being gone.

Why is the Narrator represented as a mirror? Hard to say. Perhaps it's an artistic choice meant to teach you that all your actions reflect on you - and that therefore the form each Princess takes is ultimately a reflection of you as well. Perhaps it's meant to make you pity the Narrator, in that he can only exist as reflections of what he sees.

It is important to note, however, that the instances of the Narrator are not so limited that they can't change their minds. Depending on which Princess you find, there are some iterations where that storyline's Narrator decides that slaying the Princess just isn't worth it anymore. Food for thought.

[hi]

Originally posted by Kazzius:

The Narrator ain't a bird though. I feel like I've got a good idea of what he is or appears as, but there's no way I can say it without massive spoilers. Also, I could just be wrong.


The Narrator is the mirror. Yes, that one you see every time you go into the cabin. The Narrator tells you the mirror isn't there either because he doesn't want you finding out or because he (being the mirror) can't see himself.

We know that the Long Quiet manifests as a bird within the construct (albeit a very strange, anthropomorphic one that has hands and teeth), so when you as Quiet look in the mirror, what do you see? Yourself, reflected back at you. You don't see what's IN a mirror because all a mirror does is reflect what looks into it.

Each mirror you see is one instance of the overall Narrator, and after your dealings with a particular Princess are done, the mirror you see at the 'end' before going to see Shifty again is a signal that this particular Narrator has reached its limit.

It isn't until the final mirror shatters that we see what might be considered the Master Narrator, the source from which all the instances were copied - and he himself is a copy of a person long dead. He's essentially an AI that was left behind to run the construct's simulation loop, although he apparently GREATLY underestimated just how powerful both you and Shifty are.

You might notice, in the final ending where you go back to the cabin, you don't see the mirror anymore. The construct still exists, but the simulation is over. The Hero even comments on the Narrator definitely being gone.

Why is the Narrator represented as a mirror? Hard to say. Perhaps it's an artistic choice meant to teach you that all your actions reflect on you - and that therefore the form each Princess takes is ultimately a reflection of you as well. Perhaps it's meant to make you pity the Narrator, in that he can only exist as reflections of what he sees.

It is important to note, however, that the instances of the Narrator are not so limited that they can't change their minds. Depending on which Princess you find, there are some iterations where that storyline's Narrator decides that slaying the Princess just isn't worth it anymore. Food for thought.

I'm fine with spoilers as I've played through the game extensively, but I was saying other people may not.
Also, I think The Narrator is a bird, and he is IN the mirror. He says that the mirror is breaking because you see him. He hides the mirror so you never see him, to prevent you from ever truly killing him.

[Johan]

Remember that the princess refers to the player many times as "little bird" or "birdface". Dunno if the Narrator was originally an anthropomorphic bird, but you can see it talking in the mirror because it talks through you, same as when the ghost princess possesses your body and from that moment she can talk to the other voices, as well as take control (as when the Narrator forces to stab the "normal" princess).

[ivanything43]

Originally posted by Lanonade:

My personal interpretation is that the narrator was taking on enough of TLQ's appearance for himself to 'blend in' with the Voices. The voices clearly know he's not one of them, but they're willing to tolerate him as long as he contributes something or appears to have their wellbeing in mind: he's similar enough to be included, but different enough that they're quick to point out his otherness. The narrator is an echo, after all, and it's unlikely that he has enough of 'himself' left to influence his form. All the narrator can say about himself is that he was terrified enough of death that he found a way to split and trap a god's pieces. It could mean that he's just too proud to open up to TLQ in the mirror scene, but I'm of the belief that the only thing he has left is his purpose. An echo repeats just enough for you to recognize yourself, but you know it's not you. The narrator shows enough of TLQ for TLQ to look at him and go "you're not me, but you seem to fit here".

I don't really get the "fitting in" thing. None of the voices tolerate him in that way, he's othered very clearly. The voices tolerate him like you tolerate a random guy who's telling you what to do, not because he's blending in correctly.
I think TLQ's body is not actually his body, his "real" body is the whole construct itself. The body we see is what the Narrator made for you. He says at one point "this body wasn't made to [...]" so I think it would be weird for him to blend in to something that isn't even TLQ. But maybe I'm misinterpretting your interpretation since yours is more metaphorical.
I also don't think just because the Narrator is an echo, he can't have an appearance. I think the way they represent his body is done in service to the fact he's an echo, it's only in the mirror. He doesn't have an actual body, just a reflection of one.
Also I don't think he's "too proud to open up" about his fear of death, he makes it VERY apparent. Maybe in a more analytical and moral way instead of an emotional way but still.

Originally posted by Lanonade:

edit: also it's important to point out that when the narrator calls himself 'mortal', it's with the focus that TLQ and Shifty are not, they are something fundamentally different from what the narrator is. the narrator goes out of his way throughout the game to establish that he is not similar to the princess or player, as in his mind the fact that an immortal cannot die makes their suffering less terrible than a mortal being's suffering. it's class-based dehumanization, more or less, with the classes being "can die" and "can't die"

I only meant to say mortal to kinda demonstrate that the game never tells us he used to be a human. He could've been a human but all we know is that he used to be "mortal."

Originally posted by hi:

alt title: big fat thick spoiler right there for all the world to see

Why would you ever open the discussions of a game without having played it? The game takes like 3-5 hours to beat, there is no need to cover spoilers. Maybe for specific routes but this stuff is in EVERY playthrough. I think if you see discussions and get spoiled before you play the game, you're just dumb.

Originally posted by Kazzius:

The Narrator ain't a bird though. I feel like I've got a good idea of what he is or appears as, but there's no way I can say it without massive spoilers. Also, I could just be wrong.


The Narrator is the mirror. Yes, that one you see every time you go into the cabin. The Narrator tells you the mirror isn't there either because he doesn't want you finding out or because he (being the mirror) can't see himself.

We know that the Long Quiet manifests as a bird within the construct (albeit a very strange, anthropomorphic one that has hands and teeth), so when you as Quiet look in the mirror, what do you see? Yourself, reflected back at you. You don't see what's IN a mirror because all a mirror does is reflect what looks into it.

Each mirror you see is one instance of the overall Narrator, and after your dealings with a particular Princess are done, the mirror you see at the 'end' before going to see Shifty again is a signal that this particular Narrator has reached its limit.

It isn't until the final mirror shatters that we see what might be considered the Master Narrator, the source from which all the instances were copied - and he himself is a copy of a person long dead. He's essentially an AI that was left behind to run the construct's simulation loop, although he apparently GREATLY underestimated just how powerful both you and Shifty are.

You might notice, in the final ending where you go back to the cabin, you don't see the mirror anymore. The construct still exists, but the simulation is over. The Hero even comments on the Narrator definitely being gone.

Why is the Narrator represented as a mirror? Hard to say. Perhaps it's an artistic choice meant to teach you that all your actions reflect on you - and that therefore the form each Princess takes is ultimately a reflection of you as well. Perhaps it's meant to make you pity the Narrator, in that he can only exist as reflections of what he sees.

It is important to note, however, that the instances of the Narrator are not so limited that they can't change their minds. Depending on which Princess you find, there are some iterations where that storyline's Narrator decides that slaying the Princess just isn't worth it anymore. Food for thought.

I guess he could be the mirror, but I meant before the construct and how he was in real life before he killed himself. I don't think it has to be exclusive, could've been a bird turned into a mirror.
I'm not sure that he uses whatever is reflected in the mirror as himself. The bird a separate thing from you since I think the game makes it pretty apparent. You ask if that is you and the Narrator responds "I think you know what I am" kinda implying that no I'm separate from you. And TLQ has his own look anyway.
Also don't think it had to be censored for the same reasons as before, this is kind of a discussion on what it all meant not revealing the actual content of the game.

Originally posted by Johan:

Remember that the princess refers to the player many times as "little bird" or "birdface". Dunno if the Narrator was originally an anthropomorphic bird, but you can see it talking in the mirror because it talks through you, same as when the ghost princess possesses your body and from that moment she can talk to the other voices, as well as take control (as when the Narrator forces to stab the "normal" princess).

I don't think he was an anthropomorphic bird, I mean a literal bird. The crow in the mirror would be literally what he looked like when he was alive. The reason why TLQ would be a bird thing is because the Narrator made your body out of the kind of concept of his body mixed with a person.
I don't think he would be talking through you because the crow in the mirror is pretty clearly stated to be different from you. The Narrator implies it heavily in his response to you and TLQ has his own design already. (restatement)

[hi]

Originally posted by ivanything43:

Originally posted by hi:

alt title: big fat thick spoiler right there for all the world to see

Why would you ever open the discussions of a game without having played it? The game takes like 3-5 hours to beat, there is no need to cover spoilers. Maybe for specific routes but this stuff is in EVERY playthrough. I think if you see discussions and get spoiled before you play the game, you're just dumb.

I'm not saying I got spoiled, but what if someone came here to ask about a certain type of princess? There's a chance they haven't gotten 5 vessels yet. Steam discussions are not youtube comments; when you go to the comments section on youtube, you should expect spoilers for the video. When you go to see discussions, you shouldn't expect major spoilers for endgame content.

[ivanything43]

So, forget everything I said, the Tower princess says that the Narrator "used to be a person" so I'm probably completely wrong. Think it would've been cool if he was a bird tho.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by ivanything43:

So, forget everything I said, the Tower princess says that the Narrator "used to be a person" so I'm probably completely wrong. Think it would've been cool if he was a bird tho.

The narrator is (was) a person dissatisfied with the concept of death (he considered death to be an unnecessary cruelty) afaik. That's what I got from it anyway. I think the crow is some kinda symbolism, given that crows are associated with death and what he's doing is eternal death for the princess and the dragon bird creature thing.

Personally I think a lot of the more complicated story beats are up to personal interpretation.

[eglepe]

Originally posted by ivanything43:

So, forget everything I said, the Tower princess says that the Narrator "used to be a person" so I'm probably completely wrong. Think it would've been cool if he was a bird tho.

Person doesn't necessarily mean "human". A person is someone with consciousness and agency. A sufficiently advanced AI or a sapient alien lifeform could be considered a person

[Viila]

Originally posted by Kazzius:

The Narrator ain't a bird though. I feel like I've got a good idea of what he is or appears as, but there's no way I can say it without massive spoilers. Also, I could just be wrong.

The Narrator is the mirror. Yes, that one you see every time you go into the cabin. The Narrator tells you the mirror isn't there either because he doesn't want you finding out or because he (being the mirror) can't see himself.

We know that the Long Quiet manifests as a bird within the construct (albeit a very strange, anthropomorphic one that has hands and teeth), so when you as Quiet look in the mirror, what do you see? Yourself, reflected back at you. You don't see what's IN a mirror because all a mirror does is reflect what looks into it.

You literally see the bird in the mirror shards speak when the Narrator speaks and be still when the Narrator doesn't speak. Clearly the bird is supposed to be the Narrator, otherwise you'd be doing a very silly pantomime for no good reason.

[The Debauchery]

Originally posted by Kazzius:

The Narrator ain't a bird though. I feel like I've got a good idea of what he is or appears as, but there's no way I can say it without massive spoilers.

There are no such things as spoilers, so you needn't worry about it. And "spoiler" tags make interacting with the text especially bothersome.

The Narrator is the mirror. Yes, that one you see every time you go into the cabin. The Narrator tells you the mirror isn't there either because he doesn't want you finding out or because he (being the mirror) can't see himself.

I guess that is one interpretation, but I don't believe so, primarily because I believe the mirror is just a mirror, and the Narrator says it isn't there in order to get rid of it and prevent the Construct from looking at itself. That or the mirror is effectively a gestalt of all the Voices, and they're afraid of it because it deprives them of their distinctive identities. Can't really be sure though. I believe it was the Spectre Princess that referred to the Voices as shards of glass though.

It certainly doesn't help though that this game seriously takes liberties with the idea of a self and the utter inadequacy of pronouns. I mean if the game says "you", it isn't clear whether it is referring to the Player (i.e. the one sitting outside the computer playing the game), the Decider (the avatar-personality of the player within the game serving as a core operator of the construct) or the Long Quiet (i.e. the Construct, the Decider, the Voices and the Narrator all together).

It isn't until the final mirror shatters that we see what might be considered the Master Narrator, the source from which all the instances were copied - and he himself is a copy of a person long dead. He's essentially an AI that was left behind to run the construct's simulation loop, although he apparently GREATLY underestimated just how powerful both you and Shifty are.

I don't believe we're even looking at a separate being there.
The way I see it, the Narrator is controlling the Construct and essentially making it talk to itself in the mirror, thoughts vs actual words. The bird face is the Construct itself reflected in the glass. At least as I see it, the Narrator is dead by his own admission and has no form.

You might notice, in the final ending where you go back to the cabin, you don't see the mirror anymore. The construct still exists, but the simulation is over. The Hero even comments on the Narrator definitely being gone.

I figured it was gone because that is a version of the Cabin you already know you've been to, and thus presumably already encountered with, attempted interaction with and banished the mirror. That and the only Voice left is the Hero... and the Contrarian if you're in the Stranger's cabin.

Why is the Narrator represented as a mirror? Hard to say. Perhaps it's an artistic choice meant to teach you that all your actions reflect on you - and that therefore the form each Princess takes is ultimately a reflection of you as well.

That would be incredibly ironic as the Decider is essentially the only one with no direct control over the form of the Princess. He is like a taxi driver, simply taking the others to the destination they already decided on. Ostensibly in control, but without any actual agency. The Voices control the princess, and they barely ever even acknowledge the Decider's existence. In fact I believe it is only in "The Princess and the Dragon" that they actually acknowledge the Decider as a separate being.

[Aurora]

Just one word: Tzeentch, the Changer of Ways.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by Aurora:

Just one word: Tzeentch, the Changer of Ways.

That is 5 words

[MrSoul]

Originally posted by eglepe:

Originally posted by ivanything43:

So, forget everything I said, the Tower princess says that the Narrator "used to be a person" so I'm probably completely wrong. Think it would've been cool if he was a bird tho.

Person doesn't necessarily mean "human". A person is someone with consciousness and agency. A sufficiently advanced AI or a sapient alien lifeform could be considered a person

or a fragment/figment of someone's own mind for that matter.