Is there really a good or bad guy in this game?

[JRPG-Guy]

I know I should be able to answer this after beating the game twice but in a way everyone feels like a victim.

[cricharddavies]

The Narrator is the bad guy. As he is only the victim of his own hubris, I decline to feel any pity for him. The Hero, unsurprisingly, is the good guy, though it takes a while for this to become apparent.

[Jackdaw Mask]

Narrator is funny in that he never actually lies about why he wants princess to die, but when you realize truth behind what is going on he is at same time understandable and really reprehensible :'D Dude is trying to change nature of reality because he just can't accept that Death exists and can't understand why anybody else would accept it either

[Skree]

Originally posted by Jackdaw Mask:

Narrator is funny in that he never actually lies about why he wants princess to die, but when you realize truth behind what is going on he is at same time understandable and really reprehensible :'D Dude is trying to change nature of reality because he just can't accept that Death exists and can't understand why anybody else would accept it either

Well, the Narrator really doesn't seem that bad at that point. I kinda agree with the guy.

[Jackdaw Mask]

Originally posted by Skree:

Originally posted by Jackdaw Mask:

Narrator is funny in that he never actually lies about why he wants princess to die, but when you realize truth behind what is going on he is at same time understandable and really reprehensible :'D Dude is trying to change nature of reality because he just can't accept that Death exists and can't understand why anybody else would accept it either

Well, the Narrator really doesn't seem that bad at that point. I kinda agree with the guy.

I mean, yeah. He isn't really evil(even with moral questions of creating system that basically tortures you two. Like even if you agree with Her that her existence is necessary for world to function meaningfully, it doesn't make narrator evil, its philosophical disagreement.), you understand why he is like how he is. Its just that he is quite literally delusional and has massive hubris to do what he did because he is literally rejecting the reality :'D Only thing that changes from real life is that we wouldn't have ability to try to do what he did and all implications are that he never consulted anyone else for what they would have wanted to do because his plan relies on nobody knowing about Her

[dande48]

You first need to define what you mean by "good" or "bad".

[CalvinwithaK]

Narrator is the bad guy point blank. I do NOT want to lose the very concept of change just so that we also lose death. I don't really even wanna lose the concept of death to begin with that ♥♥♥♥ is important.

[Skree]

A little bit of hubris is a right of the Human.

We were made to dominate, not to be sheep and passively accept what fate was bestowed upon us by chance or higher power.

We are the higher power. And if we're not, we owe to ourselves to do whatever we can to become it.

[thomashooperh]

I can't even call the Narrator a bad guy.

I would consider him the "least good" of everyone in the game, but I can understand his motivations. He's trying to spare others the pain, suffering, and terror of death.

But I generally go against him in the end and only followed his wishes to see more endings.

[Havean]

99% of our choices are thwarting the narrator but hes not evil he just knows whats happening. To him it's all worth it in the end even if we disagree.

[cricharddavies]

Originally posted by Havean:

99% of our choices are thwarting the narrator but hes not evil he just knows whats happening. To him it's all worth it in the end even if we disagree.

You have just defined "the bad guy". And he clearly doesn't know what's happening, considering the number of times he expresses complete bewilderment at the events that transpire. He is the perfect example of the pathetic cowardly control freak who cannot accept that other people have wills of their own and so tries to rule them. I hope he was lying when he said the shattering mirrors didn't hurt him. I hope it hurt him a great deal.

Originally posted by thomashooperh:

He's trying to spare others the pain, suffering, and terror of death.

And oh so conveniently, he does so in a way that will prevent himself from ever having to live with the consequences of what he inflicts on the rest of reality. He's scum.

[Havean]

Originally posted by cricharddavies:

Originally posted by Havean:

99% of our choices are thwarting the narrator but hes not evil he just knows whats happening. To him it's all worth it in the end even if we disagree.

You have just defined "the bad guy". And he clearly doesn't know what's happening, considering the number of times he expresses complete bewilderment at the events that transpire. He is the perfect example of the pathetic cowardly control freak who cannot accept that other people have wills of their own and so tries to rule them. I hope he was lying when he said the shattering mirrors didn't hurt him. I hope it hurt him a great deal.

Originally posted by thomashooperh:

He's trying to spare others the pain, suffering, and terror of death.

And oh so conveniently, he does so in a way that will prevent himself from ever having to live with the consequences of what he inflicts on the rest of reality. He's scum.

Erm have you got to the end?

He knows everything that's happening, he set everything in motion. What you interact with are just small echos of what he once was that don't know everything.
He also can't live with consquences because before the story even started he died. He died trying to rid the world of death by creating you. What we interact with is the last echo of him, he tells us not to mourn him as he died a long time ago.

[cricharddavies]

That is the exact opposite of living with the consequences. By setting all this in motion so that he will die in the process, he avoids being held accountable for anything that results from his actions. He literally takes the coward's way out.

[Havean]

Originally posted by cricharddavies:

That is the exact opposite of living with the consequences. By setting all this in motion so that he will die in the process, he avoids being held accountable for anything that results from his actions. He literally takes the coward's way out.

I think dieing is a very big consequence. especially from someone who is so afraid of death.

[Libra]

i personally think there isn't a real good guy or bad guy, everyone here believes in their beliefs and ideals and would do anything to achieve that.
The narrator(echo) wants everyone to be free from suffering and death by removing the concept of transformation/change, so he sacrificed himself to create this pocket universe(construct) to achieve this goal, which is using you to kill the princess(from what I get you are the only one able to eliminate that concept because you represent the polar opposite(stillness/unchanging), also it seems you and her used to be one single entity before getting divided into two by him).
"The princess" wants to be free and wants to spread her concept to everything, she also sacrifices(absorbs) the free will of her other fragments(princesses) for her growth, when you oppose to her escaping the construct or doubts her ideals she will fight you until you give up and let her do what she wants or she kills you(you never get killed because the "voice of the hero" saves you).
And you as the protagonist would do anything for your own goals or ideals too.
I think the only good person is the final princess that you find in the cabin at the end(when the "voice of the hero" takes you there), because she trusts you, loves you and will always support you whatever choice you make(even in her dieing breath she wishes you to succeed and get what you want)

[cricharddavies]

Originally posted by Havean:

Originally posted by cricharddavies:

That is the exact opposite of living with the consequences. By setting all this in motion so that he will die in the process, he avoids being held accountable for anything that results from his actions. He literally takes the coward's way out.

I think dieing is a very big consequence. especially from someone who is so afraid of death.

You keep ignoring the word living. If you die, you're not living with the consequences, you are dying and thus avoiding them. Everyone else will have to live with what you've done, but you don't have to. He clearly prefers death to that, so how scared of death is he really? It is LIFE that he fears.