Reflections about Sororitas faction problems

[marcuf]

Ok, some feedback regarding the new Sororitas faction. I hope it doesn't fall into oblivion...

First of all, I am spanish, sorry for my problems with the language. In my country, English is punished as much or more than the Sororitas ladies.

As in any card game based on board control, the exchange between units is one of its fundamental bases. Hence, mechanics like PRAY (even though it is novel and interesting) entail certain issues to be taken into consideration. If hitting with a unit is sacrificed, it is because it is truly worth it. In the case of Ephrael Stern it is not worth losing six damage due to the possibility of doing even up to one damage. Or Simulacrum Celestian. Under what circumstances is giving +1/+1 until end of turn better than hitting by 5? Very few... (minimum grants permanent buff). Both epic cards, by the way. Poor epics in general for this faction... :( And like these many other PRAY cards.

This brings us to the question of FAITH (another great mechanic but not without problems). Again, damaging the units is a basic issue. Because of this, obtaining FAITH becomes a complicated matter. This in itself would not be a severe problem except for the high faith cost required by certain cards. Apparently there are three levels of faith; 3, 5 and 8 points. 3 is achievable but depending on which cards, it is still a problem. In the case of cards like Seraphim, since having 3 of faith on the third turn is very optimistic and cannot be played on a curve with flanking. Being literally a worse card than Crisis Battlesuit. 5 or 6 of faith starts to be really difficult to obtain, as a consequence cards like Paragon Battlesuit, Blade of Faith are seriously affected or directly unplayable like Canoness or Beacon of Faith or, sadly, Miraculous Feat. Finally, reaching 8 faith becomes practically impossible. Cards like Divine Intervention lose a lot of value and cards like Exorcist or Imperial Creed are not worth playing at all.

In short, all this severely restricts the possibilities of choosing cards in the Sororitas. Limiting your possibilities and available archetypes. Drastically impoverishing the faction.

As a way forward, I think that by making obtaining faith a little more accessible or, above all, reducing the cost of faith on certain cards, everything would go a long way toward having a much healthier faction.

Thanks for your attention.

[Vindictus]

Excellent post.

[teosa]

Correct me if I'm wrong: but looks like a playtest-launch, no?

Edit: even if it was... much better than the T'au experiment which seemed to have been the occasion for a game overhaul integrating the other factions with T'au rather than vice versa (Ultramarine overhaul, Sautekh overhaul, Black Legion expansion).

[marcuf]

Originally posted by teosa:

Correct me if I'm wrong: but looks like a playtest-launch, no?

Edit: even if it was... much better than the T'au experiment which seemed to have been the occasion for a game overhaul integrating the other factions with T'au rather than vice versa (Ultramarine overhaul, Sautekh overhaul, Black Legion expansion).

Interesting point, brother.

I don't entirely agree, since fixing the Necrons was something very necessary even before TAU entered the scene. Maybe they did learn with TAU that you can't bring out such powerful factions to make them stand out. But I totally agree that this new faction has been introduced hastily and, effectively, little tested. It is not at all difficult to see how practically impossible it is to reach certain levels of faith.

I would even say more (and this is the most painful part). I feel like a lot of cards are designed lazily or very uninspired (of course i really love PRAY and FAITH mechanics). But many "vanilla" cards. Only six penitence cards out of more than sixty. With hardly any ways to gain faith outside of praying. Man, there's even an offensive status that's literally the same as a Necron one. (If you get a skull stun one troop on both fields). Only three states and one repeats...

I think perhaps the pace of expansions is too fast for the testing and enough creativity they have in their launch. Of course it's nice to have new material often. Of course everyone loves these fanatical and feisty ladies. But in exchange for the game´s health? Perhaps this trend that we see in large triple A games, where things come out halfway and "they will be fixed" also affects these more modest games. It´s choosing a way of doing things. Who knows...

But the thing is clear. New material or balance changes at the right time and done really well, will always be healthy and therefore make a better and more attractive game for people. Which in the end is what it's all about.

[SandroDark]

Their counter-attacks sucks(untill 40 level of forge presumably). If you go second, you just loose. Especially in mirror.

[NIkto Barada]

id like to point out that EG started mothballing old cards in HHL- sometimes bringing back the same troop under a new name.
id love to believe that soros are lategame.but as fast as WF games are ive got probs to find it out reliably. espc with rng what it is.

[Still River]

My impression is that Adepta Sororitas need further work on them. So far I have not encountered a single opponent in multiplayer playing Adepta Sororitas. It feels like Pray is very unreliable in generating faith and the other mechanic triggering effect on taking damage is not being used much either.

[NIkto Barada]

they got probs achieving early board control, vanguard units have probs, only that one stratagem that lets you summon crusaders and the celestian superior seemed good.

[SonofProsperoXV]

Originally posted by NIkto Barada:

id like to point out that EG started mothballing old cards in HHL- sometimes bringing back the same troop under a new name.
id love to believe that soros are lategame.but as fast as WF games are ive got probs to find it out reliably. espc with rng what it is.

I think the intention for them was to be a late game build up faction, but right now with how slow they are "late game" for them means like 5 turns into overtime.

[marcuf]

Originally posted by SandroDark:

Their counter-attacks sucks(untill 40 level of forge presumably). If you go second, you just loose. Especially in mirror.

Yep. The same defence card for nids is in position 20 in the forge. Little love for sororitas... "You want that defense, little one. Go. Run for it."

[marcuf]

Originally posted by Still River:

My impression is that Adepta Sororitas need further work on them. So far I have not encountered a single opponent in multiplayer playing Adepta Sororitas. It feels like Pray is very unreliable in generating faith and the other mechanic triggering effect on taking damage is not being used much either.

I've tried a lot myself to do something with Sororitas in ladder, but It just couldn't against Tier 1 decks in high ranks. I'd say it's at a low Tier 2 now. Completely agree about faith problems. Only six cards out of sixty with Penitence. With many "vanilla" cards in the middle. It certainly feels like a rushed expansion. "And we will fix it"

[marcuf]

Originally posted by Lanestrost:

Originally posted by NIkto Barada:

id like to point out that EG started mothballing old cards in HHL- sometimes bringing back the same troop under a new name.
id love to believe that soros are lategame.but as fast as WF games are ive got probs to find it out reliably. espc with rng what it is.

I think the intention for them was to be a late game build up faction, but right now with how slow they are "late game" for them means like 5 turns into overtime.

Hahahaha, 5 turn after overtime... :D

The faction has very good late cards. But without the support of activating large amounts of faith, right now is not enough. Imotekh with its tomb world, armor and a lot of removal holds up perfectly. In that kind of match ups, in my experience, the strategy is to play more like a heavier midrange with a lot of control resources. If they make that powerful late more attainable, I will be delighted with it.

[Croft]

Without a doubt, the main problem of the faction and the mechanics of FAITH is that you choose between an attack and some kind of effects, as well as the possibility, once again, the possibility to get a point of FAITH, because there are already enough players who understand that FAITH points cannot be given and prefer to control you.

And at the same time, we have space marines, chaos or loyal - it doesn't matter, who get their bonuses regardless of the attack. Sometimes it seems to me that if we just got faith points by playing cards, for example, like the Chaos Space Marines - cards with pacts, the Adept Sororitas faction would be much better. For example: For the play, the Prayer card gets 1 point of FAITH, for 1 energy. Of course, it would be necessary to rebalance the number of FAITH points on the cards with an additional effect, but the main thing is that we could attack.

Another interesting option, it seems to me, is to give the sisters the opportunity to pray as soon as you play the card - they still won't be able to attack, but at the same time they pray, get a bonus and don't wait for the whole turn.

[marcuf]

Indeed, the absence of the emperor when giving his approval to this mechanism is undeniable.

That is perhaps the most painful thing, the certainty that (after a brief test, which I doubt) the Pray/Faith binomial does not work. Which almost ensures the lack of intention to create a healthy game, in exchange for creating a healthy wallet for the company. Content versus consistency. Quantity versus quality.

And to make matters worse, they announce and release more factions when others like Sororitas clearly don't work. Very unpleasant. Because of this I left this game a few months ago. It's sad to see that when I look out with the corner of my eye, like now, things remain the same. In return I discovered "Flesh and Blood", one of the best TCGs I have had the opportunity to play throughout my life. I strongly recommend it to everyone.


Take care, brothers!

[Skeithe079]

I think with an early beginner perspective faith could probably use a slight tweak.
1. Make 3 faith cards cost 1 faith, 5=3 and new stronger 5s

2. Maybe a 2 cost card to apply shield in the early stages of the game so your commander can build faith turn 2-4 slightly easier.

[marcuf]

Originally posted by Skeithe079:

I think with an early beginner perspective faith could probably use a slight tweak.
1. Make 3 faith cards cost 1 faith, 5=3 and new stronger 5s

2. Maybe a 2 cost card to apply shield in the early stages of the game so your commander can build faith turn 2-4 slightly easier.

Hi, brother!

1.- Clearly the faith cost for many cards should be reduced even further, but I feel that the real problem lies in the acquisition of faith itself. I remember match-ups in which, if your opponent understands what he is facing, you can reach the endgame with little faith or directly nothing. The point would be to create more ways of gaining faith independent of the opponent's interactions. Like "Relics of St. Katherine."

2.- If I understood you correctly, the card you propose already exists. "Prayer". But, despite being a wonderful and healthy card, unfortunately it is not enough. But your proposal to design more cards along the same line is undoubtedly more than adequate.