Byzantine Empire Much Better to play with the patch!

[pbkcc]

The penalties and the inability to do anything to remedy them (after playing numerous starts on various difficulty levels for over 100 hours) is causing me to seriously consider asking for a refund. I really have tried to "enjoy" playing this game, but as a gamer who only plays as the Eastern Roman Empire I am totally frustrated. I had wishlisted this game for months and purchased and played Field of Glory Medieval for many enjoyable hours prior. You can win with the Byzantines in that game. Why not this one??? I am a Byzantophile and I only play this faction in most games including the table top. In my experience (plus the guy I watched play for 3 hours on YouTube) there is simply no way to succeed as the Eastern Roman Empire. I am very disappointed. Looks like I am back to waiting for Medieval 3: Total War.

[PatRat]

I'm no expert on byzantine history, but in general things like an empire falling apart usually don't happen overnight, (look at Rome). Things might look all sunshine and rainbows on the surface, but underneath the wealth and power, forces are already at work that will lead to the empire's downfall.

The seeds of Byzantiums downfall were sown long before Manzikert.

[prenticea]

Some advice about optimal strategies including some specifics about Byzantium on the Slitherine forum that looks useful

https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115716

[deemarksu]

I think i enjoy playing as Byzantine. My current campaign seem going well now after failed for three times before. Now i m at turn 71st and i think the enjoyment of playing as the Byzantine is constant civil war you must admit it ;D. But i think when i handle it the rusult is about raised authority good finance good manpower have a pretty big armies and be able to fight back the Turks and The Normans i hope ;)
https://steamcommunity.com/id/deemarksu/screenshot/2495638210045898907/

[pbkcc]

Thank you Prenticea! That was very helpful.

[PatRat]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย pbkcc:

I am a Byzantophile

I have just started reading "A History of the Byzantine State and Society" by Warren Treadgold.

As a Byzantophile, what other books would you recommend?

I'm aware of the 3 volume work by John Norwich, however it's not available on Kindle which is how I read all my books now.

[Henrique Lique]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย pbkcc:

Thanks for your reply PocusFR. I truly appreciate it. I am a veteran wargamer. I have been gaming since the 1970's. I have been a table top gamer before computer games existed. I have thousands of hours into computer games like the Total War series, Crusader Kings II and III, Knights of Honor, Field of Glory II Medieval, and any other even earlier Medieval Strategy games. I spent hours watching YouTube play-throughs, played the tutorial, and tried to understand the mechanics. The Eastern Roman Empire is my area of interest in history ( I am a historian and have taught history for over 35 years). I have no interest in playing as Sweden or any other faction. If there was a minor Byzantine faction (like in Crusader Kings III for example) I would play that. But that is not an option in this game. I don't mind the difficulty aspect as that is challenging, but this is over the top in my opinion. The game mechanics (as they are now) don't allow anything except a slide into chaos. As a gamer you insert yourself into history to see if you can change things - not simply repeat it. I would argue, as history itself demonstrated, that the Eastern Roman Empire would have quite easily survived given capable leadership. That aspect, again in my experience of over 100 hours of just game play (not counting the hours watching YouTube videos), is simply not possible in this game. I am not talking about Legacy Points here, but the actual mechanics of stability in the Empire. The Empire may be playable, but for me it is certainly NOT enjoyable. And why do I play games in the first place. For enjoyment. So I will continue to monitor the forums and Slitherine site to see if a patch or mod can "fix" the issues with the mechanics, but I am done wasting my time on a game that is clearly over nerfed against the Byzantines. Back to Medieval Total War, Crusader Kings, etc. Frustrated? Yes. I had been so excited for this game, and it has SO much potential to be a great game. Maybe that is why I am so disappointed. Again, thank you for responding PocusFR. Many devs would just ignore my comments.

Mentioning this way that you are veteran was a lil bit unpolite, being veteran doesn't mean being good. To me sounded like this: "i played a lot of medieval games, no game can be hard for me, i'm too good to sttrugle"

Byzantine is hard, but is pretty playable.

A lot of options:
1 - you can remove buildings to reduce the cost.
2 - You can make buffer vassals on the border. Really, even the ai do this. Since loyalty is tied to local authority and local autorithy reduce with distance to capital, will help with revolts.
3 - Since Byzantine is huge, is literally the easiest nation to win the game, it just needs a lot of micro on the beginning. If you reach midgame, game will be so ez that you will find boring.
4 - Only real challenge is when mongols popup.

[Henrique Lique]

You mentioned medieval total war, ck and knights of honor. Played all of them, they are extremly easy games. FOG at least try to be challenging "even though ai is pretty bad with their military and tend to suicide themselves declaring too many wars"

Like dev said, try easier nations to learn the mechanics, once you had learned the mechanics, you will find ERE pretty playable.

[Henrique Lique]

If you only play byzantium, you can play venice (Part of the byzantine empire nominally) or the ragusa generic duchy

[starbuck310]

Its meant to be challenging because Byzantine was in an extremely challenging situation both internally and externally. The developers have a vision of how they want to develop the game. Asking them to change because it hasnt met your one region view is a bit disingenuous. Its a journey thats only just begun. Embrace the journey and accept change. A commander adapts, plays the cards hes dealt.

[Heraclius Caesar]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย PatRat:

I have just started reading "A History of the Byzantine State and Society" by Warren Treadgold.

As a Byzantophile, what other books would you recommend?

I'm aware of the 3 volume work by John Norwich, however it's not available on Kindle which is how I read all my books now.

Hey brother, I know you didn't direct this at me but I have some great Byzantine history book recommendations for you (and anyone else interested) and these are available on Kindle:

Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood by Anthony Kaldellis

A Cabinet of Byzantine Curiosities by Anthony Kaldellis

The New Roman Empire by Anthony Kaldellis

Romanland by Anthony Kaldellis

The Byzantine Republic by Anthony Kaldellis

The Byzantine Hellene by Dimiter Angelov

Serving Byzantium's Emperors by Dimitris Krallis

Justinian II by Peter Crawford

The Last Great War of Antiquity by James Howard-Johnston

The Alexiad by Anna Komnene

The Lost World of Byzantium by Jonathan Harris

Byzantium and the Crusades by Jonathan Harris

The Byzantine Art of War by Michael J Decker

[PatRat]

Thanks Heraclius, I'll check them out on Amazon.

[arbenzlola]

The Byzantines were unplayable in real life

[Daskal]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย arbenzlola:

The Byzantines were unplayable in real life

I always knew we were just pawns on earth for the gods enjoyment :)

[bylandt11]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Henrique Lique:

A lot of options:
1 - you can remove buildings to reduce the cost.
2 - You can make buffer vassals on the border. Really, even the ai do this. Since loyalty is tied to local authority and local autorithy reduce with distance to capital, will help with revolts.
3 - Since Byzantine is huge, is literally the easiest nation to win the game, it just needs a lot of micro on the beginning. If you reach midgame, game will be so ez that you will find boring.
4 - Only real challenge is when mongols popup.

Also how I went about it. The way I had to manage the declining West Roman Empire (5th century) in Attila Total War, gave me the idea.

SPOILER ALERT for those who want develop their own strategy.
.........






Most important: cede 53 regions in the first turn (effect from the third). This will leave you with exactly 100 regions. Cede the regions near the border, of course. Don't give them to your neighbours, but countries farther away, so they will form buffer zones.

You authority will take a hit but will recover at a rate of 3 or 4 pts per turn, because you will be within demesne limit. In turn 7 I was out of bottom tier. After a while your authority will be above 60, which gives a -2 on coup chances. Another -1 comes from being a smaller empire. You are left with a smalller but stable realm that will soon be very powerful and prosperous. First phase will need micro managment, as Henrique says.

The imperial ambitions will have to wait. Getting an army of 50 standing army units is not difficult. The rest can come later. I'm now turn 53 and it's been plain sailing until this point. HRE is a little ahead in legacy, but I will catch up once the more urgent buildings are in place.

[pbkcc]

Thanks for all the tips. I opted into the patched version yesterday, and it works great for me. I was able to actually get the loyalty in my provinces up and increase my Authority score into positive numbers. Still had to deal with coups, civil wars, and rebellions, but it was way more enjoyable for me. I did give up some provinces on the borders (especially in the east), but I managed to add some in the west by defeating the Pechenegs. I did notice that in the patched version the Pechenegs were a lot more aggressive in invading my territory than in the non-patched version, but that was actually enjoyable too as I also had to deal with heretical revolts at the same time. Hats off to the devs for making this patch available and optional as well. Brilliant work gents.