AI difficulty level specifics?

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Anyone have a source anywhere? I want details. Especially with there being so many of them!

[Saica-Fox]

how much do u want the ai to cheat aside from normal each higher one ai cheats more and more

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Originally posted by Saica-Fox:

how much do u want the ai to cheat aside from normal each higher one ai cheats more and more

this thought never occurred to me. hm. fascinating.

ok, anyway, anyone have some of the specific #s involved with this, um, difficult concept for me to grasp? Or a possible source to look into? Nothing in the 300 page manual other than "the ai gets more cheater as you go up."

[Saica-Fox]

Originally posted by Dizzy Ioeuy:

Originally posted by Saica-Fox:

how much do u want the ai to cheat aside from normal each higher one ai cheats more and more

this thought never occurred to me. hm. fascinating.

ok, anyway, anyone have some of the specific #s involved with this, um, difficult concept for me to grasp? Or a possible source to look into? Nothing in the 300 page manual other than "the ai gets more cheater as you go up."

the only thiing i herd is it goes up 25% or so each level up to 200% and that was from an older video. so like bonus income reduced upkeep bonus trade goods and xp on troops and better troops sooner. Most importantly the ai plays the same making all the same mistakes or choices. Now idk how much has changed but this was from a beta player a few weeks back

[Tanaka]

Originally posted by Saica-Fox:

Originally posted by Dizzy Ioeuy:

this thought never occurred to me. hm. fascinating.

ok, anyway, anyone have some of the specific #s involved with this, um, difficult concept for me to grasp? Or a possible source to look into? Nothing in the 300 page manual other than "the ai gets more cheater as you go up."

the only thiing i herd is it goes up 25% or so each level up to 200% and that was from an older video. so like bonus income reduced upkeep bonus trade goods and xp on troops and better troops sooner. Most importantly the ai plays the same making all the same mistakes or choices. Now idk how much has changed but this was from a beta player a few weeks back

Actually the AI is given more time to think with each new level. I've always hated this because I want to give the AI more thinking time on the balanced level which it will not allow you to do. Ageod games used to give you the option to give the computer more time. I don't understand why they changed this.

[PocusFR]

The AI gets bonuses in loyalty, military expertise (a general bonus to experience but no influence on battles), a discount on Court Expenses, slightly reduced odds for a coup, and so on. I know it's a requested feature to get the list of changes, but I think there are 150 spots in the code where the AI can get a bonus depending on the difficulty level. It's certainly not just five entries as in other games, like +10% combat rating. (The AI, by the way, never receives any direct bonus in a battle, even on suicidal difficulty.)

It's also further blurred by the fact that some changes benefit the player, even on higher difficulty. For example, there are many occasions in events where, if a country should be made a vassal, if controlled by a human, it won't happen. This is why the first level is named balanced because it combines adjustments for both the human player and the AI for the best gaming experience.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Originally posted by PocusFR:

The AI gets bonuses in loyalty, military expertise (a general bonus to experience but no influence on battles), a discount on Court Expenses, slightly reduced odds for a coup, and so on. I know it's a requested feature to get the list of changes, but I think there are 150 spots in the code where the AI can get a bonus depending on the difficulty level. It's certainly not just five entries as in other games, like +10% combat rating. (The AI, by the way, never receives any direct bonus in a battle, even on suicidal difficulty.)

It's also further blurred by the fact that some changes benefit the player, even on higher difficulty. For example, there are many occasions in events where, if a country should be made a vassal, if controlled by a human, it won't happen. This is why the first level is named balanced because it combines adjustments for both the human player and the AI for the best gaming experience.

I guess the most important part for me would be it gets maximum access to its decisions and time to work out what it will do at the "balanced" level.

Can you speak to that?

[PocusFR]

It was inefficient in the old engine; giving the AI more time only resulted in marginal improvements because the algorithms were the same. The problem was not in "search depth," i.e., looking at 5 or 10 regions for all possible targets, but in how the algorithms worked.

Since Empires is based on a new engine, we rewrote the AI from scratch, and it is both much faster and better than the old AGEOD engine.

Balanced difficulty has no time penalty compared to higher difficulty levels; they all work with the time they need and are not restricted in their search for solutions.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Good to know. Thank you.

Hope you guys will remain open to suggestions for the ai from us as we get to play it more.

Old World devs have been remarkable in this as an example.

[Tanaka]

Originally posted by PocusFR:

It was inefficient in the old engine; giving the AI more time only resulted in marginal improvements because the algorithms were the same. The problem was not in "search depth," i.e., looking at 5 or 10 regions for all possible targets, but in how the algorithms worked.

Since Empires is based on a new engine, we rewrote the AI from scratch, and it is both much faster and better than the old AGEOD engine.

Balanced difficulty has no time penalty compared to higher difficulty levels; they all work with the time they need and are not restricted in their search for solutions.

Thanks for clarifying Pocus. Why does the manual make it sound otherwise?

*At higher levels of difficulty, the AI will more often calibrate its options and the depth of search for opportunities will increase;

[PocusFR]

Because I forgot some details about the AI, sorry! Looking back at the code, it's true that the Search and Destroy mission for the AI will check more armies at higher difficulties and at greater distances. So, there is indeed some extra leeway given to the AI's thinking at high difficulty. I'm not even sure if it meaningfully changes the end result though.

[Tanaka]

Originally posted by PocusFR:

Because I forgot some details about the AI, sorry! Looking back at the code, it's true that the Search and Destroy mission for the AI will check more armies at higher difficulties and at greater distances. So, there is indeed some extra leeway given to the AI's thinking at high difficulty. I'm not even sure if it meaningfully changes the end result though.

Ah well then still wish we could get the best AI thinking algorithm at any level or at least the option to! I like playing the level with the least AI cheats but AI still playing at it's best capacity. I am fine giving the AI more time to think. I always picked this option with the old Ageod games and miss it!

[shygamer]

Exactly what Tanaka said. I always like to play on the difficulty where the AI gets the least amount of cheats but still plays to the best of its ability. I don’t understand why few strategy games give you that option.

[Machiavelli]

There is some description in the manual

[PocusFR]

Originally posted by shygamer:

Exactly what Tanaka said. I always like to play on the difficulty where the AI gets the least amount of cheats but still plays to the best of its ability. I don’t understand why few strategy games give you that option.

Because it's an illusion to think one compensates for the other. We are not there yet, but perhaps we will be within a few years with the generalization of AI. Then people will ask for AI opponents with some limitations because they are too good!

So, the AI gets numeric bonuses because it's the only way for it to remain competitive in a complex game.

[shygamer]

I'm not asking for no cheats, I'm asking for a setting that uses the best AI algorithm with the least amount of cheats (closest to balanced). Why no option for that?