Pizza Pig Phase 1 is unforgivable boss design

[Omicron-0B]

So, the current state of the fourth boss is that he has three attack patterns, only one of which opens a microscopic window to attack which you frequently can't exploit because Anger Foot objectively does not run fast enough to clear the distance before Pizza Pig regains his footing.

This is bad enough on its own; it's compounded by the fact that one of his attacks that doesn't make him vulnerable is a spin attack that should logically be incredibly disorienting resulting in a vulnerability window at the end instead of a brief sequence of regaining his footing where the player still cannot interact with him at all whatsoever.

And compounding that is that you have no way to goad the AI into picking the attacks you're waiting for.

I paid to play Anger Foot, not to play Mother May I

[9214]

Wearing Holy Sandals makes it a cakewalk, you can resurrect as well as walk unharmed on water, as well as cheese and sewer acid.

Pig's 3rd phase gave me HL2 helicopter Vietnam flashbacks though.

[Omicron-0B]

Originally posted by 9214:

Wearing Holy Sandals makes it a cakewalk, you can resurrect as well as walk unharmed on water, as well as cheese and sewer acid.

Pig's 3rd phase gave me HL2 helicopter Vietnam flashbacks though.

I am not talking about how difficult the fight is, I am talking about how tedious it is. "Git gud" comments are totally irrelevant; loadout suggestions to make the fight easier are only relevant insofar as they mean less time suffering through the tedium.

Did not know the holy sandals included walk-on-water functionality though.

Since posting I managed to complete the fight and have feedback accordingly, although I might be emphasising the negative as I just wasn't in a good mood after suffering through phase one that many times.

Phase 2 has basically the same fundamental issue of "you get to interact with the boss when we ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ say so and not before" but it didn't sting quite as much because there wasn't a variance of attack pattern and especially not any attack that should logically have left it vulnerable, although I resent that the weapons available were crossbows which can easily take long enough to charge and shoot that the boss' vulnerable phase ends.

As for phase 3, of the attempts where I *got* to phase 3, the second was successful, I'm not particularly averse to vehicle segments on principle but I was frustrated by the inability to run the boat motor in reverse or turn without gunning the engine. Crucially, the pace of the fight was susceptible to player influence instead of strictly set by external mechanics, unlike all the stages to get there.

[ScrapHavilon]

yeah that fight kinda annoyed me too lol

[Yellow Dice]

Beat him first try, I had more trouble with the tentacle. Just dodge him and attack him after he does the third cheese slicer drive, and for bosses always use the second life shoes.

[hyphenza]

Thank you for the feedback

[Omicron-0B]

Originally posted by hyphenza:

Thank you for the feedback

You're welcome, and I hope the tone wasn't too harsh.

Originally posted by Yellow Dice:

Beat him first try, I had more trouble with the tentacle. Just dodge him and attack him after he does the third cheese slicer drive, and for bosses always use the second life shoes.

Is there something about gamers that prevents them from understanding the concept that feedback regarding boss design is not inherently a request for hints? Obviously you beat phase 1 by kicking him after the third cheese slicer drive - the whole problem is that his use at all of the cheese slicer drive is completely outside player control, and that it hurts verisimilitude for him to be unkickable while he visibly recovers from his spin attack.

[9214]

Originally posted by Omegonthesane:

Is there something about gamers that prevents them from understanding the concept that feedback regarding boss design is not inherently a request for hints?

Dude, chill. You never made it obvious in the original post that this is a one-way feedback for dev, not a general rant with two-way discussions. It's only natural for others to give you helpful tips if you phrase it like you're struggling with the boss.

[Omicron-0B]

Originally posted by 9214:

Originally posted by Omegonthesane:

Is there something about gamers that prevents them from understanding the concept that feedback regarding boss design is not inherently a request for hints?

Dude, chill. You never made it obvious in the original post that this is a one-way feedback for dev, not a general rant with two-way discussions. It's only natural for others to give you helpful tips if you phrase it like you're struggling with the boss.

This is not an isolated incident. Every time people bring up the fundamental accessibility issue presented at the end of Hades 2 where ||Chronos|| turns off your pause functionality that you've had for the whole entire rest of the game, someone replies trying to frame it as a skill issue or a matter of tactics when it's literally nothing at all whatsoever to do with skill or with tactics. Similarly, no amount of game mechanical skill is going to make it easier to wait an arbitrary period of time until the game tells you you're allowed to interact with an enemy for a short window that you can plausibly end up unable to exploit through practically no fault of your own.

Combats in an FPS should be a skill check not a patience check. While the game doesn't explicitly punish patience in the rest of the runtime, it isn't exactly rewarded either - you end up having to face extra goons and spend extra ammunition and, above all, extra time when you likely could have run past and reached the objective more quickly.

[cb]

wear charging shoes. its not complicated. you move faster with certain shoes. if your issue is moving slowly, try using different shoes.

[9214]

Originally posted by Raspberry:

wear charging shoes. its not complicated. you move faster with certain shoes. if your issue is moving slowly, try using different shoes.

It's not about the loadout or strategy like the OP said, but rather it being an arcade-style sequential boss fight where you are allowed to apply said loadout with strategy only in a narrow time window between attack phases.

I didn't find it either annoying or unforgivable though. Some attacks were poorly telegraphed, sure, but it was a nice change of pace compared to the rest of the levels. Pizza Pig wants to take it slow and punish sinners for their haste, IYKWIM *obscene oinking*