How can an ARPG like TI considered as p2w?

[Godlike Mix-Ups]

I quite dont get the idea here. I maybe can not play all heroes but I can enjoy most of them for free. I maybe can buy power (not sure) but is the best part of those games not building your character? What is the point of spending money to get high value dmg without doing smth ingame ? And If you want spend money then do so. It has no pvp either so why people saying it is p2w ?
Is there a competitive goal or something ?

[Zoolot]

The game is Pay to Win.

Stop simping for it.

[Elveone]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

The game is Pay to Win.

Stop simping for it.

And here we start the circular argument again. No, the game isn't pay to win because you cannot buy anything of significance that can make you better at it than a free player in the long run.

[Zoolot]

For the people who keep saying it's not Pay to Win.

Pactspirits. It's a Gacha, It's Pay to Win.

You've lost.

[Elveone]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

For the people who keep saying it's not Pay to Win.

Pactspirits. It's a Gacha, It's Pay to Win.

You've lost.

It is gacha. It is not pay to win because it does not provide advantages.

[Zoolot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Elveone:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

For the people who keep saying it's not Pay to Win.

Pactspirits. It's a Gacha, It's Pay to Win.

You've lost.

It is gacha. It is not pay to win because it does not provide advantages.

It gives stats, therefore pay to win. Doesn't matter how marginal.

[Elveone]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Elveone:

It is gacha. It is not pay to win because it does not provide advantages.

It gives stats, therefore pay to win. Doesn't matter how marginal.

It does not give you stats, it gives you alternative nodes in a system where acquiring the stats from the pact removes different stats of equal value.

[Zoolot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Elveone:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

It gives stats, therefore pay to win. Doesn't matter how marginal.

It does not give you stats, it gives you alternative nodes in a system where acquiring the stats from the pact removes different stats of equal value.

http://www.vhpg.com/torchlight-infinite/red-umbrella.html

compared to

http://www.vhpg.com/torchlight-infinite/awooawoo-violet.html

The legendary has better and more stats.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Elveone]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Elveone:

It does not give you stats, it gives you alternative nodes in a system where acquiring the stats from the pact removes different stats of equal value.

http://www.vhpg.com/torchlight-infinite/red-umbrella.html

compared to

http://www.vhpg.com/torchlight-infinite/awooawoo-violet.html

The legendary has better and more stats.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, you do have no idea what I am talking about because you haven't played the game which is my point. The pact nodes replace normal nodes that are available to everybody. The legendary pet gives you
+24% attack damage
+45% attack critical strike rating
+8% attack speed
+19% chance to inflict Paralysis on hit
+10% additional Attack Damage dealt to nearby enemies
but takes away
+73% damage
+103% minion damage

[Terra]

im top 25-50 since season start and i just bought the season pass. nothing p2w here.

[Zoolot]

Legendary

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed
middle +24% attack damage
middle +45% attack critical strike rating
middle +8% attack speed
outer +19% chance to inflict Paralysis on hit
+10% additional Attack Damage dealt to nearby enemies

VS

Rare

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed

In addition when you upgrade the pets you get the following:

Upgrade Rewards

Pact Point +1
Outer Ring gains Bonus Affixes
Pact Point +1
Effects of Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +100%
Effects of Non-Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +33%
For the legendary pet.

You can buy extra pets by spending money so you will increase the chance of upgrading a pet by spending money.

Thus Pay to Win.

Everything points to Pay to Win, and you keep trying to fight it.

[oldschooldiablo]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Legendary

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed
middle +24% attack damage
middle +45% attack critical strike rating
middle +8% attack speed
outer +19% chance to inflict Paralysis on hit
+10% additional Attack Damage dealt to nearby enemies

VS

Rare

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed

In addition when you upgrade the pets you get the following:

Upgrade Rewards

Pact Point +1
Outer Ring gains Bonus Affixes
Pact Point +1
Effects of Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +100%
Effects of Non-Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +33%
For the legendary pet.

You can buy extra pets by spending money so you will increase the chance of upgrading a pet by spending money.

Thus Pay to Win.

Everything points to Pay to Win, and you keep trying to fight it.

LMAO. Ur proving nothing. The devs hosted a speedrun tournament. Which pitted f2p players vs 1 whale. Guess what the whale lost.

https://mobile.twitter.com/torchlight_xd/status/1588516420018544640

It's not Pay to win as u seem to think. F2p players wouldn't have won if that's the case.

Facts don't care about opinions. Ur blinded by what the shop offers. And that's all u see. U don't seem will to actually look at the game itself with out the shop.

[Zoolot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av bnawrocki01988:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Legendary

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed
middle +24% attack damage
middle +45% attack critical strike rating
middle +8% attack speed
outer +19% chance to inflict Paralysis on hit
+10% additional Attack Damage dealt to nearby enemies

VS

Rare

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed

In addition when you upgrade the pets you get the following:

Upgrade Rewards

Pact Point +1
Outer Ring gains Bonus Affixes
Pact Point +1
Effects of Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +100%
Effects of Non-Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +33%
For the legendary pet.

You can buy extra pets by spending money so you will increase the chance of upgrading a pet by spending money.

Thus Pay to Win.

Everything points to Pay to Win, and you keep trying to fight it.

LMAO. Ur proving nothing. The devs hosted a speedrun tournament. Which pitted f2p players vs 1 whale. Guess what the whale lost.

https://mobile.twitter.com/torchlight_xd/status/1588516420018544640

It's not Pay to win as u seem to think. F2p players wouldn't have won if that's the case.

Facts don't care about opinions. Ur blinded by what the shop offers. And that's all u see. U don't seem will to actually look at the game itself with out the shop.

Hey look an anecdote.

That's totally proof /s

All that this proves is that people are wasting money on this game.

Edit: The more I look at this:

This whole event was obviously a stunt to try to lie and act like their game isn't Pay to Win.

[oldschooldiablo]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Ursprungligen skrivet av bnawrocki01988:

LMAO. Ur proving nothing. The devs hosted a speedrun tournament. Which pitted f2p players vs 1 whale. Guess what the whale lost.

https://mobile.twitter.com/torchlight_xd/status/1588516420018544640

It's not Pay to win as u seem to think. F2p players wouldn't have won if that's the case.

Facts don't care about opinions. Ur blinded by what the shop offers. And that's all u see. U don't seem will to actually look at the game itself with out the shop.

Hey look an anecdote.

That's totally proof /s

All that this proves is that people are wasting money on this game.

It proves ur wrong. F2p players won that speed run. If it's Pay to win that wouldn't have happened.

So what if players are paying money. That means ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cuz it's not Pay to win.

Talking to u is like talking to a flat Eather. No matter what facts they are shown. Ur stuck with ur opinion and it won't change no matter what ur shown as proof.

[Zoolot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av bnawrocki01988:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Hey look an anecdote.

That's totally proof /s

All that this proves is that people are wasting money on this game.

It proves ur wrong. F2p players won that speed run. If it's Pay to win that wouldn't have happened.

So what if players are paying money. That means ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cuz it's not Pay to win.

Talking to u is like talking to a flat Eather. No matter what facts they are shown. Ur stuck with ur opinion and it won't change no matter what ur shown as proof.

Did they play for the exact same period of time?

What microtransactions did the P2W player have?

What classes were the players all playing and what are they considered within the meta?

What content did the players play?

What builds did the players play?


All of this needs to be answered to even remotely be considered as "proof".

No one has provided concrete proof that this game isn't Pay to Win.

The Pactspirits provide stats if you dump money into them.

This fulfills the definition of Pay to Win.
Paying money for power.

Congratulations on you trying to discredit my argument by likening me to a group that's easier to attack. Real mature.

If you're going to attack me, then I will return the favor:

At least I can spell worth a damn.

Edit: Also thinking back, it's one 'whale' versus any number of other F2P players.

Of course there's going to be a player that is better than them in some way.
Doesn't mean the game isn't Pay to Win.
You people are so caught up on the 'win' part and not understanding the meaning of the phrase.
It doesn't mean that you 'win' content, it means that you can purchase power that players who do not spend money cannot reasonably get.

[Zoolot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Elveone:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zoolot:

Legendary

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed
middle +24% attack damage
middle +45% attack critical strike rating
middle +8% attack speed
outer +19% chance to inflict Paralysis on hit
+10% additional Attack Damage dealt to nearby enemies

VS

Rare

inner +12% attack damage
inner +12% attack damage
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +22% attack critical strike rating
inner +4% attack speed
inner +4% attack speed

In addition when you upgrade the pets you get the following:

Upgrade Rewards

Pact Point +1
Outer Ring gains Bonus Affixes
Pact Point +1
Effects of Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +100%
Effects of Non-Bonus Affixes in Outer Ring +33%
For the legendary pet.

You can buy extra pets by spending money so you will increase the chance of upgrading a pet by spending money.

Thus Pay to Win.

Everything points to Pay to Win, and you keep trying to fight it.

You have no idea what you are talking about and you stubbornly keep repeating the same factually wrong thing again and again. You do not even try to inform yourself about the game. Therefore you are a stupid troll.

I give you proof, yet you insult me, petulant child.