Absolutely don't play - Gacha, P2W, and now even worse.

[Niko]

So i tried the game out after seeing all the bait "Free to play, only cosmetics, really good new ARPG" videos.
Joined the discord to see discussions on the game.
Learned about the P2W pet gacha. Then about the 100€ trait gacha.
Absolutely crusaded in the discord for a change, hoping to stir up the waters - and i did, we now have an annoucement that they're looking into it, after a lot of heated discussion.
Now, jump to today.
Disgruntled mod and some random called me out on it, citing i'm crying (and yeah, in the end i did care a little too much), and that, believe it or not, i do this because "i'm poor".
When i rebuked back, proving i'm not poor - in the most cringe but only manner - and i do it because it's morally wrong to have such a monetization system, i get muted for three hours, by the same mod who called me poor. Not to mention the guy joined the mod team that same day.
Now i lost hope. Don't play, just don't, and avoid the discord and these developers. Just move on, and wait for something worth your time.

Edit: I won't reply to copers. False advertising, P2W, Gacha, it's inexcusable. Don't fall for the cope. Not to mention the mods ban you for talking about it.

[Astasia]

What is one "winning" that makes buying shortcuts to power "P2W?" My understanding is there is no PvP.

People like to throw that term around a lot because Diablo Immoral made it popular, but there is a big difference between a game where the endgame revolves heavily around PvP systems and a game with no real PvP at all. Nobody cries about Warframe being P2W, you can jump into that and buy the best weapons and primes in the game on day one and skip all of the grind, it's because it's not "winning" without a heavy element of competition involved.

We still don't know how much of what people are claiming is "P2W" is just buying shortcuts, how viable it is for free players to get the same things eventually.

[Niko]

Originally posted by Astasia:

What is one "winning" that makes buying shortcuts to power "P2W?" My understanding is there is no PvP.

People like to throw that term around a lot because Diablo Immoral made it popular, but there is a big difference between a game where the endgame revolves heavily around PvP systems and a game with no real PvP at all. Nobody cries about Warframe being P2W, you can jump into that and buy the best weapons and primes in the game on day one and skip all of the grind, it's because it's not "winning" without a heavy element of competition involved.

We still don't know how much of what people are claiming is "P2W" is just buying shortcuts, how viable it is for free players to get the same things eventually.

If there's no PvP, there's PvE. All the top players have shelled out atleast 100€.
It's playing for power, it's P2W. Especially after the promises.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

Originally posted by Astasia:

What is one "winning" that makes buying shortcuts to power "P2W?" My understanding is there is no PvP.

People like to throw that term around a lot because Diablo Immoral made it popular, but there is a big difference between a game where the endgame revolves heavily around PvP systems and a game with no real PvP at all. Nobody cries about Warframe being P2W, you can jump into that and buy the best weapons and primes in the game on day one and skip all of the grind, it's because it's not "winning" without a heavy element of competition involved.

We still don't know how much of what people are claiming is "P2W" is just buying shortcuts, how viable it is for free players to get the same things eventually.

If there's no PvP, there's PvE. All the top players have shelled out atleast 100€.
It's playing for power, it's P2W. Especially after the promises.

If you stop being a competition obsessed jock you would see that your definition of "top" is completely flawed and, in fact, meaningless.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

If there's no PvP, there's PvE. All the top players have shelled out atleast 100€.
It's playing for power, it's P2W. Especially after the promises.

Paying for power still isn't winning if there is nothing to win. There's no evidence that any content needs extra power to clear easily. Nothing I've seen mentions any sort of group only content where extra power would be useful or "top players" would rule. There's no evidence there wont be some way to earn the same amount of power by playing long enough.

If you can clear all the content for free and nobody is ever going to "beat you" at anything, then the game can't possibly be called P2W no matter how much power they sell. It sounds like the difference off a fully upgraded optimal pet is only a few percent of stats, even if you grouped with somebody who whaled out you wouldn't be able to tell because skill and build variance would be larger than the "paid power difference."

[Niko]

Originally posted by Elveone:

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

If there's no PvP, there's PvE. All the top players have shelled out atleast 100€.
It's playing for power, it's P2W. Especially after the promises.

If you stop being a competition obsessed jock you would see that your definition of "top" is completely flawed and, in fact, meaningless.

If you don't see, yeah, that's exactly how it is.

[Niko]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

If there's no PvP, there's PvE. All the top players have shelled out atleast 100€.
It's playing for power, it's P2W. Especially after the promises.

Paying for power still isn't winning if there is nothing to win. There's no evidence that any content needs extra power to clear easily. Nothing I've seen mentions any sort of group only content where extra power would be useful or "top players" would rule. There's no evidence there wont be some way to earn the same amount of power by playing long enough.

If you can clear all the content for free and nobody is ever going to "beat you" at anything, then the game can't possibly be called P2W no matter how much power they sell. It sounds like the difference off a fully upgraded optimal pet is only a few percent of stats, even if you grouped with somebody who whaled out you wouldn't be able to tell because skill and build variance would be larger than the "paid power difference."

ARPGs are meant so you build a character as overpowered as you can - that's the win. Devs know this and abuse gullible people like you.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

Originally posted by Astasia:

Paying for power still isn't winning if there is nothing to win. There's no evidence that any content needs extra power to clear easily. Nothing I've seen mentions any sort of group only content where extra power would be useful or "top players" would rule. There's no evidence there wont be some way to earn the same amount of power by playing long enough.

If you can clear all the content for free and nobody is ever going to "beat you" at anything, then the game can't possibly be called P2W no matter how much power they sell. It sounds like the difference off a fully upgraded optimal pet is only a few percent of stats, even if you grouped with somebody who whaled out you wouldn't be able to tell because skill and build variance would be larger than the "paid power difference."

ARPGs are meant so you build a character as overpowered as you can - that's the win. Devs know this and abuse gullible people like you.

No, it is not. Generally speaking the goal of an aRPG is to build a character you have fun playing. You do not need it to be the most powerful or the most efficient. It just needs to be fun. As for goals you set for yourself - they are limitless. You set a goal and you chase it - the lowest level character to beat the game with, the fastest run you can make, a ranged assassin, a melee greatsword-wielding mage that only uses basic attacks, a character that only bunny hops to deal damage, the largest horde of summons possible, look ma - no weapons, only thorns, etc, etc. Your imagination is the only thing that is limiting you.

[Grandork]

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

Originally posted by Astasia:

What is one "winning" that makes buying shortcuts to power "P2W?" My understanding is there is no PvP.

People like to throw that term around a lot because Diablo Immoral made it popular, but there is a big difference between a game where the endgame revolves heavily around PvP systems and a game with no real PvP at all. Nobody cries about Warframe being P2W, you can jump into that and buy the best weapons and primes in the game on day one and skip all of the grind, it's because it's not "winning" without a heavy element of competition involved.

We still don't know how much of what people are claiming is "P2W" is just buying shortcuts, how viable it is for free players to get the same things eventually.

If there's no PvP, there's PvE. All the top players have shelled out atleast 100€.
It's playing for power, it's P2W. Especially after the promises.

I have shelled out 99 cents, for the auto loot. That's it. And I'm one of the top players. You are funny kid.

[Eckimus Prime]

I’ve played the ♥♥♥♥ out of and I’ve spent no money. I think you’re wrong.

[Dwarfurious]

Every hero has traits, i dont even know why they're selling them because the trait right now basically makes the ice/fire wizard an ice wizard purely, which sounds more like a side grade and in fact you're CHOOSING these traits on your characters, so you are giving up something else.
I also dumped some money to see what you can do; i looked at the pactspirit event and chose the legendary i wanted and after 50 pulls i got it and equipped and.. its not that great? Even the passive requires unlocking and you cant pay to level them, my other pets are level 5-6 so they're better. Feels to me like this is the most i can "buy" Thats what $100 gets you, a pet with marginally better passives than the free pets i've already found. Might be better to spend your resources on advancing season pass.

[Gottorn]

Originally posted by Elveone:

Originally posted by Overprime.net:

ARPGs are meant so you build a character as overpowered as you can - that's the win. Devs know this and abuse gullible people like you.

No, it is not. Generally speaking the goal of an aRPG is to build a character you have fun playing. You do not need it to be the most powerful or the most efficient. It just needs to be fun. As for goals you set for yourself - they are limitless. You set a goal and you chase it - the lowest level character to beat the game with, the fastest run you can make, a ranged assassin, a melee greatsword-wielding mage that only uses basic attacks, a character that only bunny hops to deal damage, the largest horde of summons possible, look ma - no weapons, only thorns, etc, etc. Your imagination is the only thing that is limiting you.

What nonsense. What fun are you talking about? The essence of the ARPG is precisely to pass the most difficult tests and become the strongest. Your brain is full of mobile ♥♥♥♥.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Gottorn:

What nonsense. What fun are you talking about? The essence of the ARPG is precisely to pass the most difficult tests and become the strongest. Your brain is full of mobile ♥♥♥♥.

If that was true everyone would play on hardcore when given the option. The reality is almost nobody plays on HC, and only ~2% of players in Path of Exile have completed the most difficult content. While there are always meta builds that are clearly much stronger than everything else only a small percent of players gravitate to those builds. People pick the skills and builds they find fun, and the ARPG genre is generally about mindlessly killing enemies for loot, not challenging yourself or working hard to be the best. This isn't a soulslike.

Some builds are going to be stronger than others, the difference in power between builds is going to be larger than the difference in power you can get from the gacha pets. People aren't going to feel forced to play those stronger builds much like they aren't going to feel forced to get a slight bump in power from a gacha pet.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by Gottorn:

Originally posted by Elveone:

No, it is not. Generally speaking the goal of an aRPG is to build a character you have fun playing. You do not need it to be the most powerful or the most efficient. It just needs to be fun. As for goals you set for yourself - they are limitless. You set a goal and you chase it - the lowest level character to beat the game with, the fastest run you can make, a ranged assassin, a melee greatsword-wielding mage that only uses basic attacks, a character that only bunny hops to deal damage, the largest horde of summons possible, look ma - no weapons, only thorns, etc, etc. Your imagination is the only thing that is limiting you.

What nonsense. What fun are you talking about? The essence of the ARPG is precisely to pass the most difficult tests and become the strongest. Your brain is full of mobile ♥♥♥♥.

If you aren't playing games to have fun then there's something wrong with you. Being the "strongest" might be a goal for you but my imagination is far more developed than to chase big numbers for their own sake.

[Gottorn]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Originally posted by Gottorn:

What nonsense. What fun are you talking about? The essence of the ARPG is precisely to pass the most difficult tests and become the strongest. Your brain is full of mobile ♥♥♥♥.

If that was true everyone would play on hardcore when given the option. The reality is almost nobody plays on HC, and only ~2% of players in Path of Exile have completed the most difficult content. While there are always meta builds that are clearly much stronger than everything else only a small percent of players gravitate to those builds. People pick the skills and builds they find fun, and the ARPG genre is generally about mindlessly killing enemies for loot, not challenging yourself or working hard to be the best. This isn't a soulslike.

Some builds are going to be stronger than others, the difference in power between builds is going to be larger than the difference in power you can get from the gacha pets. People aren't going to feel forced to play those stronger builds much like they aren't going to feel forced to get a slight bump in power from a gacha pet.

Well done, you are thinking in the right direction! You created a bad build, you couldn't get past the difficult content. What fun is this. You study the game, improve the build, finally go through difficult content (POE, even on the standard, can give out a bunch of different challenges). And all the fun is in overcoming difficulties and learning the mechanics of the game.
It’s just that the modern generation has degraded to the point that they don’t even understand how the game works and what their character build is based on. They just copied the manual from the internet and "have fun". But they are still stupid and funny.
I don’t know how you play, my words are basically about the degradation of players. Learning the game and overcoming challenges is the essence of fun. If you had a lot of fun creating a character, then you didn't understand ♥♥♥♥ about ARPGs, you're just a funny dumbass.
I'm talking about modern players with clip thinking, and not about you specifically.

[zkitzor]

I was kind of looking forward to this, but i can see the scale of p2w in this game. IF u can get stuff too without paying, how long u have to play? 100hours? 500 hours? 1000 hours?