Wait, who had trouble with 6-45?

[Demonking]

Of the nerfed fights we have 6-35 for obvious reasons, that one's kind of a hard wall for people less skilled at the game between how punishing the bleed attacks can be and the constant sanity drain.

Then we have 6-48 because it's the final boss and PM never balances that in a way that's comfortable for players.

Serious what, who had trouble EXing that fight? If you could beat 6-44 what was so difficult about dealing with her?

[Lord Ainz]

I ex'd both of them just fine My team was Nclair, Butler Outis, Suncliff, Lintgregor, Dieci Rodya, and Blade Sault.

[Sailor Paladin]

Incidentally, it's the only fight I had trouble with.
As I said, it's a "turn 1 fight".
Turn 1: you get a bunch of "favorable" clashes.
If you lose over half of them - might as well reset.
If you win them all - congrats, the fight is basically over, you only have to go through the motions.

I reset about thrice because I kept getting unlucky.
Then I got lucky, and the fight was basically over.

It's not a good fight in my opinion, but also not a hard one.

P.S. The only nerf I agree with is extending the EX turn count to 15. Because you can still win that fight if you don't get lucky on turn 1. It'll just slow you down considerably

[Demonking]

Originally posted by Lord Ainz:

I ex'd both of them just fine My team was Nclair, Butler Outis, Suncliff, Lintgregor, Dieci Rodya, and Blade Sault.

Well yeah just throw every 000 under the sun at it and naturally it'll be easy. Does that team have ANY connecting tissue or is just pure coin power/damage?

[Demonking]

Originally posted by Sailor Paladin:

Incidentally, it's the only fight I had trouble with.
As I said, it's a "turn 1 fight".
Turn 1: you get a bunch of "favorable" clashes.
If you lose over half of them - might as well reset.
If you win them all - congrats, the fight is basically over, you only have to go through the motions.

I reset about thrice because I kept getting unlucky.
Then I got lucky, and the fight was basically over.

It's not a good fight in my opinion, but also not a hard one.

Huh, I didn't have that situation at all. Yeah she's got some mean debuffs but I just played it smart and blocked if I can't have a good answer for one of her attacks. With 6 starting rolls for S2s and S3s it's pretty rare you won't be able to clash at least some of her kit.

[Ekimmak]

Hilarious. I just barely finished recording the final boss, and get hit with the update. So I got to record the entire thing without difficulty nerfs.

Probably the only thing I'd call outright unfair is that Heathcliff corroded on the turn of the final skill check, so next turn, when the boss throws out a massive attack that cannot be redirected, I could not actually intercept it. Would have been nice if they had the event override corrosion, or if Target Fixed was removed.

Although I guess I was able to ruin the output damage anyway, by tanking his SP, and using Sunshower for the protection. After that, I made sure he couldn't get any skills with attack weight off, so the staggered allies could recover.

PS: Turns out that I was 11 turns on 6-45. I almost feel like I should be given the Ex Clear by default.

[DoT]

48 was just long, but it wasn't actually hard. 6-35 wasn't that bad either, but it was harder then the final fight.

I can understand nerfing turn 1 of nelly and maybe toneing down 6-35 because it outshines every other fight in terms of difficulty imo. But 48 didn't really need to be touched.

[Sailor Paladin]

Originally posted by Demonking:

it's pretty rare you won't be able to clash at least some of her kit.

Not if she has like 35 sp by the end of turn 2, while you're still on 0. And since those are literally the first 2 turns, you have very little control over how they go.

The "evasion" thing also adds to the problem.
You won the clash? Oh, good. Well, that's step one.
How many coins does your attack have? Oh, 3? Oh, she's gonna evade all three of those coins. You dealt zero damage and she's just gained 6 (9-3) sp from your attack (if I remember the numbers correctly). Thanks for the buff, buckaroo.
Also, the evasion stays, so if your next sinner also attacks her and misses, like, 3 times, that's even more SP and even more chance for her to evade successfully!
YAY!

OR she might just fail her very first evasion roll. In which case it's gg wp.

It's legitimately a different fight depending on how the very first few rolls go.
I'm not exactly happy about the design philosophy here.
But do I think the nerfs were warranted?
No.

[Damoncles]

Originally posted by First to Die:

48 was just long, but it wasn't actually hard. 6-35 wasn't that bad either, but it was harder then the final fight.

I can understand nerfing turn 1 of nelly and maybe toneing down 6-35 because it outshines every other fight in terms of difficulty imo. But 48 didn't really need to be touched.

48 had some potential ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ moments, mainly the AoE in the final phase that only heathcliff can clash with and if you don't clash the entire team is getting staggered or possibly killed.

[Demonking]

Originally posted by Sailor Paladin:

Originally posted by Demonking:

it's pretty rare you won't be able to clash at least some of her kit.

Not if she has like 35 sp by the end of turn 2, while you're still on 0. And since those are literally the first 2 turns, you have very little control over how they go.

The "evasion" thing also adds to the problem.
You won the clash? Oh, good. Well, that's step one.
How many coins does your attack have? Oh, 3? Oh, she's gonna evade all three of those coins. You dealt zero damage and she's just gained 6 (9-3) sp from your attack (if I remember the numbers correctly). Thanks for the buff, buckaroo.
Also, the evasion stays, so if your next sinner also attacks her and misses, like, 3 times, that's even more SP and even more chance for her to evade successfully!
YAY!

OR she might just fail her very first evasion roll. In which case it's gg wp.

It's legitimately a different fight depending on how the very first few rolls go.
I'm not exactly happy about the design philosophy here.
But do I think the nerfs were warranted?
No.

Like I said, I just blocked or dodged when I couldn't win a clash, but that's the privilege of a 50% tier 4 team with enduring resistances to most of her attacks. Her dodge is strong enough but if you're hitting with an S3 and the dice gods don't hate you, you'll likely beat it on the first attack. Either that or you can just offset it to avoid it entirely.

[Lord Ainz]

Originally posted by Demonking:

Originally posted by Lord Ainz:

I ex'd both of them just fine My team was Nclair, Butler Outis, Suncliff, Lintgregor, Dieci Rodya, and Blade Sault.

Well yeah just throw every 000 under the sun at it and naturally it'll be easy. Does that team have ANY connecting tissue or is just pure coin power/damage?

Butler Outis Lintgreg and suncliff all specialize in SINKING. Nclair is all DAMAGE if he gets his coin flips Blade Sault has a highly damaging counter skill that is admittedly tricky to trigger and high crit chance thanks to poise and Dieci Rodya is one of the BEST tanks in the game. That's all the connecting tissue I needed. Yeah I couldn't feed my healing egos all that great in the final fight but I still beat it.

[Demonking]

Originally posted by Lord Ainz:

Originally posted by Demonking:

Well yeah just throw every 000 under the sun at it and naturally it'll be easy. Does that team have ANY connecting tissue or is just pure coin power/damage?

Butler Outis Lintgreg and suncliff all specialize in SINKING. Nclair is all DAMAGE if he gets his coin flips Blade Sault has a highly damaging counter skill that is admittedly tricky to trigger and high crit chance thanks to poise and Dieci Rodya is one of the BEST tanks in the game. That's all the connecting tissue I needed. Yeah I couldn't feed my healing egos all that great in the final fight but I still beat it.

Ah! I didn't think about the sinking angle because suncliff is more of a tank that can do a lot of different things and I usually throw molar ishmael on any sinking team. Her S3 is just too good at applying what I need. I will also admit I have a bias against any team that randomly includes N-clair with no clear reason just because its always felt cheap to me.

[DoT]

Originally posted by Yukks:

48 had some potential ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ moments, mainly the AoE in the final phase that only heathcliff can clash with and if you don't clash the entire team is getting staggered or possibly killed.

NGL, i didn't even read what the effects did or even what the effects for passing the coin checks did.

My team was strong enough to deal with him winning every clash at the end. I had N-corp Heath applying pluscoin drop and some paralysis from N-corp faust. I first tried it without really stressing about it besides the beginning, Heath was down to like 40 hp by the first time i changed to cathy, and i panicked a bit, but the rest of the fight from that point ended up feeling kind of a breeze.

Probably because like how i mentioned, the paralysis and plus coin drop negative effects he got inflicted helped me win pretty much every clash without much trouble. in the second and third part of fighting erlking heathcliff. And cathy was a pushover.

Chef greg support healing me for 5 hp did me wonders for keeping heath alive, he was my saving grave mvp. I Think my heath would have actually died without him.

[Kildread]

Originally posted by Demonking:

Serious what, who had trouble EXing that fight? If you could beat 6-44 what was so difficult about dealing with her?

I EX'ed it first try at the 10 turns limit, but it felt very much like a lucky alignment of stars.

Heath got perma staggered, and several of her attacks can catch one offguard. I missed the way to avoid or reduce the chains status. So yeah, troublesome, but if I got it with -1 sinner in the late fight (As well as getting instant-staggered by that one attack where I flipped tails and she flipped heads) --- chances are the 10-turn limit wasn't super-tight.

My team was:

Regret Faust
Spicebush Yi Sang
Dieci Hong Lu
Dieci Rodion
Molar Ishmael
7 Heathcliff

-----

For the very final boss, I cancelled out of my first attempt to switch out blunt-weak 7 Heath for Sunshower, even without Bereavement to help him. He nuked Yi Sang early on in Phase 2 with a Form Empties corrosion, I was trying to juggle Edgar Gregor's passive to keep Sunshower low on SP, but once that procs on another sinner, he's going down in the pits, that was Yi Sang. Sunshower just got hit when he had massive sinking on him. I managed to get to the final AoE with Sunshower heathcliff at max sanity (Thanks event) and no EGO resources to clash it.

Found out that final AoE seems to just keeps going until everything is dead. Switched to this:

Sunshower Heathcliff
Regret Faust
Edgar Gregor
Dieci Hong Lu
Dieci Rodion
Dieci Yi Sang

..and it was much simpler since I could now actually generate some Lust resources for those final phase clashes (I had no healing sources in that previous attempt XD), and putting Heath first gave him the support buffs first when applicable. I kept Regret Faust since I wanted to have Fluid Sac as a crutch, but could have switched her out for something else really.

It's a lot like Ruina with needing to do proper team building to clear stages, but it's hobbled with the gacha mechanics. With Ruina, one could ALT+F4 to keep the books and just retry after switching things around. But getting good resources in this game feels simple without grinding. Unless one considers logging into this game 2~3 times a day for ~10 mins on no-new-content days grinding. I've been doing this since a bit before season start and had 200+ modules, now it's the hundreds have doing a bunch skips to lvl to 45 Edgar Gregor & Dieci Yi Sang.

If I didn't have the modules, I'd just have let it stew a few days doing dailies to up some IDs and switch things around :/

[CarThief]

Huh, out of all the bosses 6-45 was pretty easy. It was a bit perplexing to go through the motions and be like "wait, what's this debuff" "oh, crap, don't want 3 of those, better spread em out". And that was that.

She was tanky, though. I can see the general people (without W-Corp nukes) either needing 15 turns to EX this or a HP nerf. But not both however, damn. They did her dirty.
Besides her, I can see a few minor clash nerfs being valid for some of the bosses (especially when their SP skyrockets to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 999 on clash win).

Honestly, the only one I'd personally nerf is 6-34 (the first encounter with that douche). Too much luck hoping he won't outroll your Sinners on turn 1, or Stagger>Fixed-Target Heath to death, or you lose 1-2 clashes and he becomes untouchable due to 45 SP. Limiting his speed to 1-3 there would've made things less RNG-oriented.

[Minh]

Me.

Originally posted by Demonking:

Serious what, who had trouble EXing that fight?

Me. I can win but it takes 11 TURNs.

Originally posted by Demonking:

If you could beat 6-44 what was so difficult about dealing with her?

She can STAGGER so beating her takes longer.