Floor 10...

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Honestly
It's probably the only thing I think needs a nerf in the entire game. I've been here since day one, earlier if you count other games in the series. I didn't think Day 1 Ricardo or Ahab needed a nerf. I never though anything that actually has been nerfed NEEDED those nerfs, but floor 10 does. I understand it's optional, but it's just a bit too much. I've only beat it 3 out of my (current) 12 attempts, and the one thing that separates a win from a loss is the boss you get on the final floor.

Wayward Passenger? Yeah you're not going to have the damage output to deal with his portals for the stagger. Devouring Siltcurrent? Not going to happen, not going to have the damage output to break spine turn 1.

So many bosses rely on you being able to break X part in Y amount of turns, and that goes entirely out the window in floor 10. I was pretty confident in my last run. I had an absolutely stacked Charge team, I had every Charge EGO gift, all the ones that could be leveled were max leveled, along with a veritable mansions worth of other varying EGO gifts. And I can't deal enough damage to the portals. I just can't. Sunshower (Yi Sang) Binds (HC) Mircalla (Don) Binds (Outis) Blind Obsession (Ish) and Fluid Sac (Faust) is hardly enough to deal more than 2/3rd of every portal's health reliably, it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[CarThief]

It's definitely over the top, with how bloated stuff gets...

Best you can do is lucky flukes (lots of damage and/or good team, good rolls, etc), or pray you encounter Lunar Memory, or try to build it (I assume like 3-5 IV-tier gifts will do it? Never tried).

...And that's just the fact the enemy gets like +200% HP or worse. They'll also start rolling casual 30+'s which you really need to get maximum clash power from Gifts for.

(Though that's still more managable then the bloat that makes it impossible to deal with enemies in time, yeah. Many bosses just become suicide to attempt. Especially anything modern with unbreakables, or anything that counters a lot.)

Ah well, did manage to beat it, but it's pretty luck-based. Or you'd have to know a insane setup that can nuke enemies with huge damage and still win rolls. The only thing I'd change is the huge bloat myself, personally. They already roll/hit harder, why make them last 4 times longer!?

[Homur ᗜˬᗜ]

Theres really no way of nerfing it without ruining it by making it too easy.

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Originally posted by CarThief:

It's definitely over the top, with how bloated stuff gets...

Best you can do is lucky flukes (lots of damage and/or good team, good rolls, etc), or pray you encounter Lunar Memory, or try to build it (I assume like 3-5 IV-tier gifts will do it? Never tried).

...And that's just the fact the enemy gets like +200% HP or worse. They'll also start rolling casual 30+'s which you really need to get maximum clash power from Gifts for.

(Though that's still more managable then the bloat that makes it impossible to deal with enemies in time, yeah. Many bosses just become suicide to attempt. Especially anything modern with unbreakables, or anything that counters a lot.)

Ah well, did manage to beat it, but it's pretty luck-based. Or you'd have to know a insane setup that can nuke enemies with huge damage and still win rolls. The only thing I'd change is the huge bloat myself, personally. They already roll/hit harder, why make them last 4 times longer!?

Right now this Wayward Passenger I'm against has 8.7K health
The portals each have 750 health which is just... wtf

I agree with the bloat being the only thing to be changed. Obviously have their health be higher but not so high that it makes some mechanics nigh impossible /because/ they require you to deal a certain amount of damage in a short number of turns and it scales awfully with the HP bloat where the values are currently at. Have the dude roll for 378, whatever, I can work around that. I can't deal with not being able to do the actual mechanics of the fight at all.

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Originally posted by Homur ᗜˬᗜ:

Theres really no way of nerfing it without ruining it by making it too easy.

Don't really agree. Just tone down the health bloat for some of the enemies. The coin roll values are mostly fine outside of a few fringe cases, the health is the issue. So many boss mechanics require you to break a certain part fast enough and it becomes impossible to deal with.

It also isn't engaging. Every fight on floor 10 is almost always EGO spam, which in itself is unsustainable without a combination of SP healing Gifts and Fluid Sac/Emitter Faust.

[EASY PETE]

we need floor 20

[MusicWolf]

Originally posted by CarThief:

It's definitely over the top, with how bloated stuff gets...

Best you can do is lucky flukes (lots of damage and/or good team, good rolls, etc), or pray you encounter Lunar Memory, or try to build it (I assume like 3-5 IV-tier gifts will do it? Never tried).

...And that's just the fact the enemy gets like +200% HP or worse. They'll also start rolling casual 30+'s which you really need to get maximum clash power from Gifts for.

(Though that's still more managable then the bloat that makes it impossible to deal with enemies in time, yeah. Many bosses just become suicide to attempt. Especially anything modern with unbreakables, or anything that counters a lot.)

Ah well, did manage to beat it, but it's pretty luck-based. Or you'd have to know a insane setup that can nuke enemies with huge damage and still win rolls. The only thing I'd change is the huge bloat myself, personally. They already roll/hit harder, why make them last 4 times longer!?

If you didn't get lunar memory at floor 10 it's pure skill issue. It's mandatory.

[Zilloy]

i did a charge run and went for floor 10 recently. it was a comeplete slaughter (and not for my team).
i picked MoWE as a floor 10 pack, even W hong lu had no issues outclashing the enemies and even Casseti barely lived for more than 1 turn. i did not had lunar memory (and that is only because i didn't get lucky enough to get a super shop)

don't really see the need of nerfing the floor 10. yes the bosses can have over 8K health and clash in the 30+ and can legit one-shot you with a basic counter, but there are plenty of gifts you can gain to boost both your clash power and damage output. in all of my runs the floor 10 boss only lived for 2-3 turns.
it's a challange to test how good you are at the game, nothing more

[Skatrzoo]

Not a single thing in your post implies you had an "absolutely stacked charge team", as you describe it. An 8.7k passenger on floor 10 should be dead in less than 1 turn with a proper charge team (due to pretty much having infinite skill 3s, combined with things like clear mirror, artistic sense, other t4 slash/pierce/blunt gifts and so on).

If you're relying on EGOs like fluid sac at the point in the run where you should be rolling 50-60s with 4-5 coin skill3s, you were EXTREMELY underpowered.

[Zilloy]

Originally posted by CarThief:

Best you can do is lucky flukes (lots of damage and/or good team, good rolls, etc), or pray you encounter Lunar Memory, or try to build it (I assume like 3-5 IV-tier gifts will do it? Never tried).

3 damage type rocks (the ones with "Memory" in their names") + 2 of any of the EGO rocks
yes you need super shop for that as you need to fuse 5 gifts at once.
the gifts use for the fusion are not removed from the gift pool, so you can get/craft them again

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Originally posted by Zilloy:

i did a charge run and went for floor 10 recently. it was a comeplete slaughter (and not for my team).
i picked MoWE as a floor 10 pack, even W hong lu had no issues outclashing the enemies and even Casseti barely lived for more than 1 turn. i did not had lunar memory (and that is only because i didn't get lucky enough to get a super shop)

don't really see the need of nerfing the floor 10. yes the bosses can have over 8K health and clash in the 30+ and can legit one-shot you with a basic counter, but there are plenty of gifts you can gain to boost both your clash power and damage output. in all of my runs the floor 10 boss only lived for 2-3 turns.
it's a challange to test how good you are at the game, nothing more

See the issue isn't me not being good enough
The issue is that you literally cannot muster the damage output for certain bosses of floor 10 outside of running across Lunar Memory. Casetti has no damage check mechanic, he's an easy boss because all you need to do against him is win clashes, which you can fall back on EGO for. Siltcurrent requires you do deal a LOT of damage fast (literally turn 1) or everyone becomes a sitting duck and is guaranteed to lose every clash following. does. Wayward gets insane buffs (20% health, +1 coin power in clash, +10% damage, +10% defense) EVERYTIME he does portal phase, and the only way to avoid it is to break EVERY PORTAL in the same turn they appear, which as stated in my original post, is not possible. Any boss with a damage check basically ends your run on Floor 10, if you get unlucky, the run just ends and you can't do anything about it.

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Originally posted by Zilloy:

Originally posted by CarThief:

Best you can do is lucky flukes (lots of damage and/or good team, good rolls, etc), or pray you encounter Lunar Memory, or try to build it (I assume like 3-5 IV-tier gifts will do it? Never tried).

3 damage type rocks (the ones with "Memory" in their names") + 2 of any of the EGO rocks
yes you need super shop for that as you need to fuse 5 gifts at once.
the gifts use for the fusion are not removed from the gift pool, so you can get/craft them again

I've had FOUL luck as of late. I've seen like a single one of those damn rocks since MD5 dropped, and I've done a LOT of runs.

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Originally posted by Skatrzoo:

Not a single thing in your post implies you had an "absolutely stacked charge team", as you describe it. An 8.7k passenger on floor 10 should be dead in less than 1 turn with a proper charge team (due to pretty much having infinite skill 3s, combined with things like clear mirror, artistic sense, other t4 slash/pierce/blunt gifts and so on).

If you're relying on EGOs like fluid sac at the point in the run where you should be rolling 50-60s with 4-5 coin skill3s, you were EXTREMELY underpowered.

I would deal 500 damage to the passenger himself on turn 1 with Faust where she's an ID that specifically needs turns to build up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of damage.

The main issue were the portals due them not having any weaknesses outside of one specific element each (Greed, Gluttony, Wrath, Pride), combined with no charge IDs having a good type matchup with those on SK3 outside of Reindeer Ish, and needing to take out ALL of them the turn they appear. After turn 1 the buffs the passenger gets pretty much makes him an unkillable sponge because he gets the +20% health and+10% def, along with the clash coin up and damage up, like those last two even matter. I'm using Sac specifically for AEO on the portals and sustaining the AOE spam you get cornered into for Wayward, not for the clash value or damage.

Rinse and repeat the cycle, it makes in intolerable.

Same goes for Siltcurrent in many cases.

Also, I had Clear Mirror and Artistic Sense (I snagged the latter on the store immediately before his node) Wayward, as a fight, does not really give a ♥♥♥♥ about clashing power or damage if it isn't AOE based. I had Ish out with +53 offence level and her Obsession EGO would deal 200+ damage on the portals, but that's split among them, so about 50 per. When each of them had well over 400 each. Using her SK3 would hit for 280 on one if I was lucky enough to have it up. Not really much I can do in that situation, my hands are tied.

[Minh]

Originally posted by ⇜SOVEREIGN⇝:

Wayward Passenger?

Yes.

Originally posted by ⇜SOVEREIGN⇝:

Devouring Siltcurrent?

Yes.

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Originally posted by ⇜SOVEREIGN⇝:

Originally posted by Skatrzoo:

Not a single thing in your post implies you had an "absolutely stacked charge team", as you describe it. An 8.7k passenger on floor 10 should be dead in less than 1 turn with a proper charge team (due to pretty much having infinite skill 3s, combined with things like clear mirror, artistic sense, other t4 slash/pierce/blunt gifts and so on).

If you're relying on EGOs like fluid sac at the point in the run where you should be rolling 50-60s with 4-5 coin skill3s, you were EXTREMELY underpowered.

I would deal 500 damage to the passenger himself on turn 1 with Faust where she's an ID that specifically needs turns to build up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of damage.

The main issue were the portals due them not having any weaknesses outside of one specific element each (Greed, Gluttony, Wrath, Pride), combined with no charge IDs having a good type matchup with those on SK3 outside of Reindeer Ish, and needing to take out ALL of them the turn they appear. After turn 1 the buffs the passenger gets pretty much makes him an unkillable sponge because he gets the +20% health and+10% def, along with the clash coin up and damage up, like those last two even matter. I'm using Sac specifically for AEO on the portals and sustaining the AOE spam you get cornered into for Wayward, not for the clash value or damage.

Rinse and repeat the cycle, it makes in intolerable.

Same goes for Siltcurrent in many cases.

Also, I had Clear Mirror and Artistic Sense (I snagged the latter on the store immediately before his node) Wayward, as a fight, does not really give a ♥♥♥♥ about clashing power or damage if it isn't AOE based. I had Ish out with +53 offence level and her Obsession EGO would deal 200+ damage on the portals, but that's split among them, so about 50 per. When each of them had well over 400 each. Using her SK3 would hit for 280 on one if I was lucky enough to have it up. Not really much I can do in that situation, my hands are tied.

The Def and Health up are stackable by the way. They remain until you either end the fight OR kill all portals the turn they appear, which as stated before, isn't really possible.
I could see a Lunar Memory making it possible, but Lunar Memory makes literally anything possible. /maybe/ a crit team. Rupture, Sinking, Burn, Bleed? Certainly not. The upfront damage just isn't there for most statuses to deal 3000 damage split between 4 enemies that have +75% def and no weaknesses outside of a single damage type each.

[Minh]

Originally posted by CarThief:

It's definitely over the top, with how bloated stuff gets...

Best you can do is lucky flukes (lots of damage and/or good team, good rolls, etc), or pray you encounter Lunar Memory, or try to build it (I assume like 3-5 IV-tier gifts will do it? Never tried).

...And that's just the fact the enemy gets like +200% HP or worse. They'll also start rolling casual 30+'s which you really need to get maximum clash power from Gifts for.

(Though that's still more managable then the bloat that makes it impossible to deal with enemies in time, yeah. Many bosses just become suicide to attempt. Especially anything modern with unbreakables, or anything that counters a lot.)

Ah well, did manage to beat it, but it's pretty luck-based. Or you'd have to know a insane setup that can nuke enemies with huge damage and still win rolls. The only thing I'd change is the huge bloat myself, personally. They already roll/hit harder, why make them last 4 times longer!?

Yes. Make them harder.