It's been 12 hours and I keep coming back to it.

[Demonking]

Since SOMEONE decided to get the idea engine going for me, I'm curious what yall would want from an actual S4 being introduced into game? Essentially a 4th skill that gets added to the deck when certain conditions are met. (So however many are left in the current shuffle of S1s, S2s, and S3s, increase it with one card for the S4 whenever this condition is met.)

For me I think the best way to introduce this sort of concept is with some sort of Shi unit, that at 50% HP Includes 1 S4 in new skill shuffles that automatically targets the lowest health enemy unit during chain battles. Could have some interesting property like being a 1 coin still that deals bonus damage equal to the Shi's missing HP health on heads hit. What would be the difference between this and an S3-2? You can't add additional S4s and beyond to the deck during a shop. They require specific conditions to be accessible at all and can be made to be a little extra broken for it.

Another great one I thought about was the idea of a LCE red gunman identity. Where after an ally drops to 20%hp or below an S4 gets shuffled into the next deck with their name on it. If it shows up on the chain bar, it then replaces the other skill with itself forcing you to essentially make a choice of killing your teammate or simply blocking. Now of course like the boss fight, killing the ally should have the unique result of dropping all of their resistances to fatal for the remainder of the turn, ensuring massive damage.

Pretty sure the concept of cards getting added to a nuggets deck existed during library of ruina too, but I think that was a full replacement. It closer to the concept them producing ego/identity cross breeds that essentially transform the sinner for a short direction after use rather than simply a very conditional bit of the kit.

[FlyToSun ✨]

first "s4" aka s3-2 got introduced ingame since BLsault, or dawnclair was introduced in game

[Demonking]

Originally posted by FlyToSun ✨:

first "s4" aka s3-2 got introduced ingame since BLsault, or dawnclair was introduced in game

I mean that technically counts, but it's the only S3-2 that isn't just a skill replacement. Every other S3-2 is essentially just working off the same deck where as Kimsault actually uses a completely new skill with its own sin affinity once the conditions for its activation are met.

So I'd argue S4s having had a real presence in the game. The only two skills that could even count would be bullet heathcliff and Kimsault, and even then bullet heathcliff only barely.

[76561199247153524]

s4 would be like En garde/Life insurance/Bayard's skill ruina cards

use skill X, then guarantee yourself s4.
how? i wouldnt know, maybe unlocks third row and places it there, maybe at the bottomest row

ex, dante ryoshu, uses counter "Engagement" then gains "En garde" Next turn replacing her bottom skill

[Tied]

Originally posted by Demonking:

Originally posted by FlyToSun ✨:

first "s4" aka s3-2 got introduced ingame since BLsault, or dawnclair was introduced in game

I mean that technically counts, but it's the only S3-2 that isn't just a skill replacement. Every other S3-2 is essentially just working off the same deck where as Kimsault actually uses a completely new skill with its own sin affinity once the conditions for its activation are met.

So I'd argue S4s having had a real presence in the game. The only two skills that could even count would be bullet heathcliff and Kimsault, and even then bullet heathcliff only barely.

I Think it would be lock in Tier V tho.
Since Uptied mean understand your ID more which mean you get more Skill from their world.

I would not really say Bullet and Kimsault are counted because it not in the deck. (It is closest for sure)
I would say any Clashable Counter is S4 skill. But he want an Ult S4 not a normal skill S4.

S4 would need be in the deck to cycle. Maybe as a One time use or After use S3 Two times you unlock it.

the problem I can see it a pain to cycle to get there. You need max 6 turn to reach there.

So idk if it worth it to make S4.

[Minh]

Originally posted by Demonking:

Since SOMEONE decided to get the idea engine going for me, I'm curious what yall would want from an actual S4 being introduced into game?

Yes.

Originally posted by Demonking:

What would be the difference between this and an S3-2?

It adds 1 Attack SKILLs to Dashboard instead of replacing Attack SKILLs.

[Minh]

Originally posted by overdrivefantasy:

s4 would be like En garde/Life insurance/Bayard's skill ruina cards

use skill X, then guarantee yourself s4.
how? i wouldnt know, maybe unlocks third row and places it there, maybe at the bottomest row

ex, dante ryoshu, uses counter "Engagement" then gains "En garde" Next turn replacing her bottom skill

It adds to pile.

[DoT]

S4's already exists, they come in the form of alternative skills. Such as To claim their bones on kimsault and Blazing strike on philclair, and what not.

It makes it easy to adjust because only some characters will have access to multiple skills this way.

Every character having another S4 just placed in would bloat and screw how the system functions.

[lorde]

like DoT said, S4s do exist, its just in the form of PM having to compromise because it wouldnt work in the traditional way like how they gave enemies s4s, s5s, etc., depending on how counter guards count towards this, maybe we exclude them or position them elsewhere, sancho would have an s6. remember, if its a skill, it automatically is designated with the 's' prefix because all that literally stands for is 'skill'. sancho's 'empowered' skills are just given the nickname 'empowered' to BF, but that isnt their primary classification because they yet remain as a 'skill', not an alternative or necessarily a variant [even though they might be a variant, that is secondary to what they are: a skill]. it's not s1-2 or s4-2, its skill 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 with conditionals. this makes it more complicated than it needs to be, so no one refers to it like that.

[Demonking]

Originally posted by DoT:

S4's already exists, they come in the form of alternative skills. Such as To claim their bones on kimsault and Blazing strike on philclair, and what not.

It makes it easy to adjust because only some characters will have access to multiple skills this way.

Every character having another S4 just placed in would bloat and screw how the system functions.

Why do you assume that I mean 'every character' should have an S4 put in? Also no, philip sinclair's alternate skills 100% do no count as an S4. They're just a different S3 he has access to and are named as such. As I said in a comment above, the closest the game comes to an S4 is Kimsault, and even that's just a function of S3 he already has. Alternate skills are just fine for most normal purposes, the majority of the time a X-2 skill is a straight up upgrade to the previous one and works well to show the character building up strength as match goes on or expending special fuel.

S4s would specifically be useful for skills you don't want to replace normal skills, such as those with weird sometimes niche functions. Alternatively they're like the example I gave for the what if gunman ID, a way to force one of the ID's mechnics on a semi-randomized timer. Neither of these functions can actually be replicated by X-2 as they are now because you're also giving up your S3 or whatever else to avoid them.

[SirKayote]

I guess an Aleph ID from LOR would need an extra skill or 2 for some of the crazy stuff they do so, from what i know... roland's furioso?

[Minh]

Originally posted by MRK:

I guess an Aleph ID from LOR would need an extra skill or 2 for some of the crazy stuff they do so, from what i know... roland's furioso?

Yes.