about a cost of enkephalin in the city

[prv.rat]

So, enkephalin worth a lot (at 1st dungeon fixer told sinners what a handful of it worth a whole expediotion). And Sinners cant be killed. And BUS can grind em to fuel which are enkephalin, which can be saved in form of modules.
Why bergilias and danteh still poor? They can litteraly convert sinners to an endless source of profit grinding em to energy. Why do they need any money from ooutside (second episode where spies flex theyr corporate credit card and danteh whines about him being low on money to cover expenses)?
I know whole plot line can be about some crap "da money cant bai", but they really ride a goldmaking machine with endless source of raw material to produce it, why dont they utilize Mephi in such way?

[Daliena]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SmallGespenst:

, the Sinners are really nothing special as far as combat capability, they were losing against the K-corp mooks.

Well that's not very fair. Those K-corp mooks were healing from any injury pretty much instantly. They could heal so fast, that when slashed with a sword, not a drop of blood would spill before the wound already sealed. And given their position they had a large enough supply of the serum/HP bullets that they could keep fighting until the Sinners' simply ran out of stamina to swing their weapons if need be.

[11/12]

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

No they are not. Dante can "rewind" only limited amount of special people, not just anyone he wants or anyone in range.

I wonder why wont Ayin just revind Carmen than, if revival tech is so common that its not concidered singularity.

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Faus EGO

Faust hints at being able to see future actions of everyone except sinners. Curriously she got Kromer identity who had same ability. Given her EGO quote and her field of research its not too far fetched.

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Outis weapon

Guns manufactored by workshops have to adhere to specification given by head. Outis gun does not. And there are laws everywhere including backstreats. Crimes done between 0 and 4 (or 6 i do not remember) am specifically at backstreets do not count but there is still a taboo about breaking into others property so as long as you are inside your house during those hours you are safe.

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Colors

They only take requests they personally like so good luck hiring one without personal aquaintance with one.

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Bough

Why do you think Kromer waited 10(?) years and even went out of her way to recreate christmas night at mundane day then? Also we do not know if LC employes were working with Bough (not that it matters). Yuri certanly didnt.

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Verg and Dante leaving Limbus

They might but Verg wont leave Charon. Also his goals seems to align with Companys anyway.

[prv.rat]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SmallGespenst:

you're forgetting that Verg is not on the Sinner's side.

We are discussing situation where they decide to smugle some enkephalin. There is no one who can snitch em. Even if Limbus have some remote data collection about enkephalin production and consumption - there is no way to distinct if they use it "fair" or not since Charon just drive around randomly and there is no way to predict how many she will use at all.
Remeber - there is more valuable source - there is more benefit in selling it. Even oil is sold with restriction violations (not saying about gold or diamonds) and there we have something which are more valuable and costly what can be produced "in field".

Oprindeligt skrevet af A Wispy Willy:

They can just snap an entire building they should have no control over out of their city and into the outskirts. The Head has a lot of power they don't put on display.
As for the main company, color fixers are by no means immortal. Meanwhile just shooting Dante would be enough to put the Sinners down permanently.

about a building - it works only when you dealing with a structure, not individuals (like you can win against army since it have a strict command structure and a supply lines you can cut) but can lose to partisans who live from raiding and dont have a central place you can just send your troops to. And city should be crowded with such small gangs (and it is according to plot) - its like to use a napalm to firght ants - you can win, but you lose your house in process. Whats why i am thinking head cant control ♥♥♥♥. They just dont have enought peoples to maintain everyday order, and this means some raiders can get profit and live to tell a tale.

[Daliena]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

No they are not. Dante can "rewind" only limited amount of special people, not just anyone he wants or anyone in range.

I wonder why wont Ayin just revind Carmen than, if revival tech is so common that its not concidered singularity.

Revival tech that'll work on anyone is a Singularity. Specifically, W. Corp's Singularity. But they still need to pre-scan you for it to work. Dantehh's revival meanwhile only works on twelve specific individuals for reasons unknown.

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Oprindeligt skrevet af A Wispy Willy:

They can just snap an entire building they should have no control over out of their city and into the outskirts. The Head has a lot of power they don't put on display.

about a building - it works only when you dealing with a structure, not individuals (like you can win against army since it have a strict command structure and a supply lines you can cut) but can lose to partisans who live from raiding and dont have a central place you can just send your troops to. And city should be crowded with such small gangs (and it is according to plot) - its like to use a napalm to firght ants - you can win, but you lose your house in process. Whats why i am thinking head cant control ♥♥♥♥. They just dont have enought peoples to maintain everyday order, and this means some raiders can get profit and live to tell a tale.

They can, because the Head allows it. It'd be more costly to exterminate every little criminal gang with the full force of the A-B-C Corporations than it is to just let them do as they will as long as they don't get colossally cocky, and mythically lucky to pull off a heist against them or the like.

The Claws, nevermind Arbiters, could wipe out entire Districts if the need for it came up, and if the cost-benefit analysis landed on "acceptable casualties", they'd do it too. But right now the criminals aren't enough of a threat to warrant such a response. And they know it too, letting the Head indirectly control the City by decree of "Don't make me come over there" ensuring that nobody rocks the boat enough to become worth nuking.

[SmallGespenst]

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

outis weapon is a gun that violate head regulations(gun has to be identifiable as a gun),

It doesnt, its just a f-king flint gun with bayonet, and its only exist a coouple of seconds when animation of her "odysy had a purpose" ult played, so head can go do a head to themseves (its the most controversal thing in whole plot - how can you maintain order in a city where is no law and multiple groups wage open war among themselves - you cant do anything - Mogadisho is a real life example of a city where anyone can kill anyone just because he can - and its not become a "monstrous economical miracle" but almost humaless dump untill there come one source of military power which cleaned all others).

In case you missed it, Outis uses basically the same weapon in her Sinner ID, complete with a gunshot in the third strike of her S1 IIRC.

You're also incorrect about the "no law" thing, The City has plenty of rules, some enforced by the local Wing, some of them are enforced by The Head and some of them are because your neighbours will beat you over the head with a tire iron and throw you to the Sweepers for just doing what you want, and that's not even touching on the expectations of the local Finger, or if the Zwei if they're protecting the neighbourhood.
Also it's very simple how The Head can maintain order, they're just that much more powerful than everyone else that their position can't be questioned, Arbiters wield Singularities at their full potential, getting to do things like julienne slicing a roomful of people with what is usually a lockpick.

[11/12]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Daliena:

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

I wonder why wont Ayin just revind Carmen than, if revival tech is so common that its not concidered singularity.

Revival tech that'll work on anyone is a Singularity. Specifically, W. Corp's Singularity. But they still need to pre-scan you for it to work. Dantehh's revival meanwhile only works on twelve specific individuals for reasons unknown.

W-corp cannot revive people for it to work person still has to be alive. They would not need stasis tech otherwise.

[Daliena]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Daliena:

Revival tech that'll work on anyone is a Singularity. Specifically, W. Corp's Singularity. But they still need to pre-scan you for it to work. Dantehh's revival meanwhile only works on twelve specific individuals for reasons unknown.

W-corp cannot revive people for it to work person still has to be alive. They would not need stasis tech otherwise.

They can though, can't they? When you enter a Warp Train, you're scanned, then spend a casual ten thousand years or so in limbo going utterly insane. When the train arrives (after ten seconds have passed in the mundane world), W. Corp Cleaners exterminate what's left of the passengers, then fire off the Singularity which revives/rebuilds the passengers as they were before the train started it's journey.

Hence why I said they need to pre-scan you - you can't just take what's already a corpse and try to bring it back, but if you scan someone while still alive..

[prv.rat]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Daliena:

Revival tech that'll work on anyone is a Singularity. Specifically, W. Corp's Singularity. But they still need to pre-scan you for it to work. Dantehh's revival meanwhile only works on twelve specific individuals for reasons unknown.

W-corp cannot revive people for it to work person still has to be alive. They would not need stasis tech otherwise.

Still - Dante cant revive anyone he wants, tech works only for 12 ppls in whole city and only if 13th person is alive are anything but singularity.

[SmallGespenst]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

I wonder why wont Ayin just revind Carmen than, if revival tech is so common that its not concidered singularity.

Actual revival tech doesn't exist. W's tech is extremely limited, and amounts to restoring a saved state, and they aren't dead; nobody can die on a WARP train.
K-corp's tech doesn't work on corpses.
Cloning is illegal outside of body replacement purposes.

Dante's power is the only thing shown that can outright bring people back from dead, and it explicitly only works on the other twelve Sinners.

[11/12]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Daliena:

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

W-corp cannot revive people for it to work person still has to be alive. They would not need stasis tech otherwise.

They can though, can't they? When you enter a Warp Train, you're scanned, then spend a casual ten thousand years or so in limbo going utterly insane. When the train arrives (after ten seconds have passed in the mundane world), W. Corp Cleaners exterminate what's left of the passengers, then fire off the Singularity which revives/rebuilds the passengers as they were before the train started it's journey.

Hence why I said they need to pre-scan you - you can't just take what's already a corpse and try to bring it back, but if you scan someone while still alive..

People do not die at warp train, when W-corp agent neutralize pasanger he just immobilize him not kill. If they could do what you think they can thay would have been rolling in cash with life insurances bussiness instead.

[11/12]

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

W-corp cannot revive people for it to work person still has to be alive. They would not need stasis tech otherwise.

Still - Dante cant revive anyone he wants, tech works only for 12 ppls in whole city and only if 13th person is alive are anything but singularity.

Singularity is an ambrella term for tech akin to magic. If litteraly ressurection even if of chosen few is not akin to magic than i do not know what is.

[SmallGespenst]

You're missing an important component needed to be a Singularity; It has to be patented. "yea this one dude has this incomprehensible power that does some really cool ♥♥♥♥" is not grounds to file for a patent without finding out exactly how it works and making it reproducible, so it can't be a Singularity.

[11/12]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SmallGespenst:

You're missing an important component needed to be a Singularity; It has to be patented. "yea this one dude has this incomprehensible power that does some really cool ♥♥♥♥" is not grounds to file for a patent without finding out exactly how it works and making it reproducible, so it can't be a Singularity.

Thats why i said its on level and not literaly singularity

[prv.rat]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

Singularity is an ambrella term for tech akin to magic. If litteraly ressurection even if of chosen few is not akin to magic than i do not know what is.

It may not be even a resurection since they need Dante tro be around and alive. Maybe there is something like "nanomachine restoration of cells to prerecorded state" where the host and controller are Dantes clockhead and sinners can be litterally very dead from the moment they were killed first time "living" like a simulation of theyr behaviour by machines dante controls.
Its not like "resurection" more like a cloning a whole human body from a remnants and kickstarting biochemical cycle anew.

[11/12]

Oprindeligt skrevet af prv.rat:

Oprindeligt skrevet af 11/12:

Singularity is an ambrella term for tech akin to magic. If litteraly ressurection even if of chosen few is not akin to magic than i do not know what is.

It may not be even a resurection since they need Dante tro be around and alive. Maybe there is something like "nanomachine restoration of cells to prerecorded state" where the host and controller are Dantes clockhead and sinners can be litterally very dead from the moment they were killed first time "living" like a simulation of theyr behaviour by machines dante controls.
Its not like "resurection" more like a cloning a whole human body from a remnants and kickstarting biochemical cycle anew.

Well, every singularity has a catch. But that would violate AI amendment and Faust seems to know how it work yet willing to participate, so its unlikely to be the case.