*New* Kurokumo team use

[Reptiloid]

Title. So, now we've got our couple of new ID's to make another 6 sinner team. Anyone figured out an optimal way, or some situations, where the KK team can be useful now? The way I see it, it is most useful as a set up for Bloodfiend team right now, as your old KK units are basically unbreakable coin glass canons that will stack bleed & generate bloodfeast, with the sole purpose to die. Which will result in the 2 new ID's becoming empowered and the bloodfiend team replacing them not needing to generate bloodfeast.

This will supposedly make story/railway chain battles easier, as you're effectively using 10 synergized sinners, with a drawback of sacrificing some support passives. This will, however, has a fairly limited use in MD, and any dungeon scenario (such as story dungeon if it has several stages in between reset tiles), as it will require you to kill off 1/3 of your sinners. Considering that new buffs don't give old KK ID's any coin/clash power in clash, they will most likely perish in first moderately serious fight. Not to mention that this setup is for old players and whales only it seems, as making a 10 sinner team with 8 000 ID's will be bloody expensive. So, that's the thing

Any other thoughts about how and where to use the new KK team? Maybe theoretically? Or everybody else has the same idea?

Edit: I also realized that teams overlap, so you will have to use specifically KK Hong Lu and Kk Ryoshu. This makes the team kind of cheaper.

Edit 2: I forgot that "Battle Ready" passive activates with 3+ deaths, so you can't bring in full bloodfiend team in there, you'd have to sacrifice either gregor or rodion.

[SmallGespenst]

It's kinda tricky to team-plan, Yi Sang and Outis are easy because the Ring IDs are stupid, but the others are harder. Manager Don and Grip Faust I guess?

[Lisanna Neferi]

Tested it in railway section 1 to see how much dmg can be done and with the full KK team i did a 18 turn clear without much tought other then keeping the lust resonance up so the dmg on normal content is there.
The 40% dmg buff from ishmael and the dark cloud blade buff to bleed did wonders to those outdated units a nice way to boost weak units without the need of an uptie 5.
The turns basically went:
-get a lust resonance of 3 at least
-set rodya counter to get the free heath skill one
-If rodya is needed to get the lust resonance or can't counter due to speed gregor and ryoshu both have a lust guard that help resonance too and let heat dish out his skill 1 anyway without losing dmg.
The dmg KKs take is really low thanks to all the offense level down and attack downs.
Put Nfaust on the bench and you can even forget about sanity problems.
Given the ammount of pride too in their skills you can even set the nebulizer from ryoshu ego if you like to see rodya give 10 bleed every turn and belive me all the chip bleed dmg ramps up really fast, nearly killed the first boss in 5 turns things only possible with TRodya.

[fliesabove78]

Originally posted by Reptiloid:

This will supposedly make story/railway chain battles easier, as you're effectively using 10 synergized sinners, with a drawback of sacrificing some support passives.

Actually you still get to use the support passive of your dead teammates in chain battles. I'm not sure if it is mention in the chain battle tutorial ( which let be honest that would be PM style) but when a unit die in that system there support passive doesn't go away. You can test this by killing Mariachi Sinclair and watch as his passive can still effect units.

You can disregard what I said if you meant optimizing support passive by benching different IDs. Although most of the KK units have good support passive for KK Heath and Ishmael.

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by Lisanna Neferi:

Tested it in railway section 1 to see how much dmg can be done and with the full KK team i did a 18 turn clear without much tought other then keeping the lust resonance up so the dmg on normal content is there.
The 40% dmg buff from ishmael and the dark cloud blade buff to bleed did wonders to those outdated units a nice way to boost weak units without the need of an uptie 5.
The turns basically went:
-get a lust resonance of 3 at least
-set rodya counter to get the free heath skill one
-If rodya is needed to get the lust resonance or can't counter due to speed gregor and ryoshu both have a lust guard that help resonance too and let heat dish out his skill 1 anyway without losing dmg.
The dmg KKs take is really low thanks to all the offense level down and attack downs.
Put Nfaust on the bench and you can even forget about sanity problems.
Given the ammount of pride too in their skills you can even set the nebulizer from ryoshu ego if you like to see rodya give 10 bleed every turn and belive me all the chip bleed dmg ramps up really fast, nearly killed the first boss in 5 turns things only possible with TRodya.

Well, I suspected that for railway it will work well enough, as you just brute force with the unbreakables. Unfortunately, railway is not the main game mode rn.

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by fliesabove78:

Originally posted by Reptiloid:

This will supposedly make story/railway chain battles easier, as you're effectively using 10 synergized sinners, with a drawback of sacrificing some support passives.

Actually you still get to use the support passive of your dead teammates in chain battles. I'm not sure if it is mention in the chain battle tutorial ( which let be honest that would be PM style) but when a unit die in that system there support passive doesn't go away. You can test this by killing Mariachi Sinclair and watch as his passive can still effect units.

You can disregard what I said if you meant optimizing support passive by benching different IDs. Although most of the KK units have good support passive for KK Heath and Ishmael.

I didn't know that support passives work while dead, wow. Still, it doesn't help with optimizing support passives. Although, in average MD/MDH runs it doesn't matter much (although the passive from bloodfiend hunter hong is rather nice for bloodfiend team), as you'd want a careful optimization only in solo runs.

The main problem of the team in MD is lack of consistency. Unless one spam Yi Sang Sunshower or Fluid Sac, I am doubtful that the KK team will survive for long on floors 4-5. As the dungeon also has this nasty ♥♥♥♥ of chain battles with 2nd wave enemies having 2 attack slots, meaning most of the time you will end up taking much more damage than intitially anticipated.

[Zeru]

I'm gonna craft Ishmael later, but I did the story with 5 Kurokumo + Shi Ishamel as a placeholder.

Conclusions.. Bleed Count is overrated as long as your team is good at building Sanguine Desire. One activation and I made a bleed stack big enough to stagger him.

Heathcliff alone doesn't save the team, but that +40% damage does look interesting now.

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by Zeru:

I'm gonna craft Ishmael later, but I did the story with 5 Kurokumo + Shi Ishamel as a placeholder.

Conclusions.. Bleed Count is overrated as long as your team is good at building Sanguine Desire. One activation and I made a bleed stack big enough to stagger him.

Heathcliff alone doesn't save the team, but that +40% damage does look interesting now.

You could've borrowed Ishmael for the story you know..

[FlintX]

Aren't they self suffiecient enough?
Hong Lu second skill is ridiculous for soloing MD. And he isn't that lacking for an old 00 id compared others early 00.

Also borrowed Ryoshu and Rodion support a few times and they seem good enough. With Rodion only being behind due to the unability to maintain poise count by her own. But in MD or a full comp with support it isn't that much of a problem.
Not every ID needs to be a powerhouse that can do everything by themselves like the main bosses Id of a particular Sinner Canto you know. Some are just designed to be depedent of a leader passive and it is what it is.

[Lisanna Neferi]

I'll start a MDH run trying to win rate with all KK team i'll let you know soon but i suspect unbrekables and unstaggerable as they are, they will breeze through it and they are bleed too
@Reptiloid

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by Lisanna Neferi:

I'll start a MDH run trying to win rate with all KK team i'll let you know soon but i suspect unbrekables and unstaggerable as they are, they will breeze through it and they are bleed too
@Reptiloid

I would like you to try picking not only favorable encounters for them, for the sake of experiment. Like, pick a slash normal or slash resistant level on floor 3-5 just to check.

[Birp]

Full 6 Kurokumo team is underwhelming.

Compared to the buffs BL Meursault gives to his team, the unbreakable coins + more bleed for Kurokumo is not great.

I thought Honglu would benefit from it, but nope. His s2 on clash lose hits for 9+10+11+12 = 42 damage. His s1/s3 still suck.

Kuro Honglu, Gregor, Ryoshu, Rodion still have terrible damage, not enough bleed, and it takes too long to kill them off.

What about the 'Battle Ready' buff Heathcliff and Ishmael get? It's okay but not worth the effort of killing off 3+ allies. Heathcliff gets a lot out of it, Ishmael not as much.

---

Overall, you're better off splashing Ish + Heath into a bleed team or just running Ish on her own. Kinda disappointing.

At least, BL Meursault made some of the older BL units decent/good, but all the older Kurokumo units are still terrible.

[Nut]

Originally posted by fliesabove78:

Originally posted by Reptiloid:

This will supposedly make story/railway chain battles easier, as you're effectively using 10 synergized sinners, with a drawback of sacrificing some support passives.

Actually you still get to use the support passive of your dead teammates in chain battles. I'm not sure if it is mention in the chain battle tutorial ( which let be honest that would be PM style) but when a unit die in that system there support passive doesn't go away. You can test this by killing Mariachi Sinclair and watch as his passive can still effect units.

You can disregard what I said if you meant optimizing support passive by benching different IDs. Although most of the KK units have good support passive for KK Heath and Ishmael.

iirc support passives for dead units stop working when the battle ends and only start working again once revived, kinda like how story locked Sinners can't contribute their passive

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by Birp:

Full 6 Kurokumo team is underwhelming.

Compared to the buffs BL Meursault gives to his team, the unbreakable coins + more bleed for Kurokumo is not great.

I thought Honglu would benefit from it, but nope. His s2 on clash lose hits for 9+10+11+12 = 42 damage. His s1/s3 still suck.

Kuro Honglu, Gregor, Ryoshu, Rodion still have terrible damage, not enough bleed, and it takes too long to kill them off.

What about the 'Battle Ready' buff Heathcliff and Ishmael get? It's okay but not worth the effort of killing off 3+ allies. Heathcliff gets a lot out of it, Ishmael not as much.

---

Overall, you're better off splashing Ish + Heath into a bleed team or just running Ish on her own. Kinda disappointing.

At least, BL Meursault made some of the older BL units decent/good, but all the older Kurokumo units are still terrible.

I kinda knew that, I was hoping someone might come up with a niche application. I mean, full team of unbreakable coins, it should be useful, no?

[Birp]

It's not useful.

[Zeru]

Originally posted by Reptiloid:

You could've borrowed Ishmael for the story you know..

I did the majority of the story with BL, since you need 1000 swords to get Heathcliff. I assumed you cannot borrow units in the dungeon. Should have checked maybe.

Originally posted by Birp:

Full 6 Kurokumo team is underwhelming.

Thanks for the detailed review. I found giving everybody 'unstaggerable' and 'unbreakable' was a creative solution to being bad clashers, but sounds like it's not good enough.