Let's talk about the story, I suppose

[Sailor Paladin]

(Obviously spoilers ahead).
There is a big part of me that was quite content with the happy ending. Purely emotionally, I was generally satisfied.

However, the more I think about it, the more I find things that I quite dislike.

Let's start with the "most serviceable" stuff:

1) Hong Lu and his trauma:
I've seen some people complain that "he got over it rather fast after he got hit with a big Bro's staff a couple of times", but... it wasn't just that.
If anything, his armor of indifference and contentment has been slowly chipped away at least since La Manchaland.

Upon his return, after all the new and unique experiences he has had, it stands to reason that something might just stir within him.

... However, I would've preferred if it was a bit more volatile. Healthcliff actually distorted over a woman he loved. I'm sorry, but the sheer, absolute amount of horror Hong Lu witnessed warrants more than just "ok, I'm better now, I guess".

But fine. Different people react differently to trauma. I will accept this. Hong Lu just has a very strong will. Fine. FINE! I'm not upset, nor disappointed!

Then there's what I call "Chekhov's gun":

2) Ok, so you set up all these factions that would like a piece of the pie, as well as still living-and-breathing remnants of those that participated in the Evaluation, a-a-a-and only Thumb makes an appearance, really.

There were plenty of other forces that just didn't make any moves and just kinda went home.
Cool.
Neat.
Really glad we've established them as potential players here.

I guess it makes sense that not many would like to "jump the gun" and get involved in a tussle with a Wing (I'm expecting The Thumb to be on the absolute top of H-crops "♥♥♥♥ list", at the very least), but I feel like we could've done something a lot more interesting here, and PM just... ran out of time, so only The Thumb gets to make an appearance.

"Wasted potential" - is what I'm saying.

Finally... the Elders:

3) Ok, so they're just ♥♥♥♥♥, right?
They're just actually using people dying for their own entertainment. They're just, straight up, unquestionably evil.
The whole "yeah, but we ensure the prosperity of H-corp." is absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!
How about you do that - develop new Boluses, conduct some actual research, promote talented individuals rather than "let's destroy the Kong clan, because FUNNY!!!"

There isn't a deeper reason why it had to have happened. There isn't a power struggle, even. There's just pure malice.

That's boring, simplistic, and I don't like, it, frankly. The brief conversation about the nature of war at the start was deeper than the whole Elders plotline!
That's the weakest narrative point by far.

Overall verdict:
Mid.

... what do the rest of you think?

[ClassyCardPlayer]

1) Hong Lu isn't over his trauma at all. He just made some cracks in it, but he still doesn't really understand how to live or what he's suppose to feel. His "resolution" in part 2 was obviously shallow, because you can't come back from being broken like that. Even at Part 3 he just accepts that having emotions is fine and accepts them, even if he fully doesn't know how to express/process them. To me it seems like a really smart way to show that not every resolution has to be an emotional rollercoaster(just like with Yi Sang who is a different flavor of depression, he also was the one who noticed the Hong Lu's expression changes, because he has went through a somewhat similar arc).

2) That is a very valid point and felt a bit "meh". Counteragument would be that it's very classic asian literature coded to bring up many different "potential things", but not many come up. Or, if they do come up, they are solved in a couple pages.

I, however, would love to see Sweeper like cutscene of characters fighting R corp and what not. But, eh, not that much of a downer for me.

3) Elders feel to me like a representation of the classic Asian Generational Trauma. The ones who can "understand" and "oh so knowledgeable", but in the end they are just broken people, who can barely function in a society, so they make up their own rules and make younger generation dance to their music. I think them just being evil is fine for the sake of "asian" flavor. A lot of asian stories have that because... surprise, generational trauma is really prevalent for them.

[ClassyCardPlayer]

Confuscious being the teacher/big cool bro(who was actually super buff in the real history and was not someone you'd ♥♥♥♥ around with) is the best, he alone brings up at least 2 points for the chapter.

I rate it slightly lower than Chapter 7, but it is really close overall for me(third favorite).

[Ben bitmişim]

I was so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hyped to see a full on war between wings. I was disappointed. Too early in the story I guess.

[Sailor Paladin]

Originally posted by ClassyCardPlayer:

3) Elders feel to me like a representation of the classic Asian Generational Trauma. The ones who can "understand" and "oh so knowledgeable", but in the end they are just broken people, who can barely function in a society, so they make up their own rules and make younger generation dance to their music. I think them just being evil is fine for the sake of "asian" flavor. A lot of asian stories have that because... surprise, generational trauma is really prevalent for them.

I would've loved to see them being genuinely constructive, or at least mostly stagnant rather than actively destructive, however.

Hell, I would've been ok with them squabbling among themselves and thus stagnating because of it (let's say that a certain Bolus would be good for the entire Wing, but the Elder representing a family who developed it is overly protective of the secret and so the Bolus recipe is just lying there, useless to everyone).

The whole "fleeting moments of vibrancy" vs "dull and grey endless existence" is actually a good premise.
"Old ways holding back new ideas" is also a good premise.

But, instead of expanding on those concepts, we have "Elders who crave suffering of others, because that's the only way they can get some enjoyment out of their wretched existence".

They're obviously and actually bad not only morally, but even from a purely utilitarian point of view.
You actually don't want them as your leaders. They're actually just crazy ♥♥♥♥♥. They bring no innovation, no development - nothing.

[Sailor Paladin]

Originally posted by ClassyCardPlayer:

Confuscious being the teacher/big cool bro(who was actually super buff in the real history and was not someone you'd ♥♥♥♥ around with) is the best, he alone brings up at least 2 points for the chapter.

Yup.
I'm not saying this Canto was all bad, I just outlined the most disappointing moments for me.

Originally posted by ClassyCardPlayer:

1) Hong Lu isn't over his trauma at all. He just made some cracks in it, but he still doesn't really understand how to live or what he's suppose to feel.

And yet, let me put it this way:
We've witnessed him let go of his coping mechanism and the transition was very smooth for him.
No emotional outbursts. No overwhelming despair.
He shed his "impervious armor" and the weight of his Trauma not only didn't crush him, but he appears to have a handle on things.

... that might change in the future, I suppose.
We've seen it with Sancho.
She removed her shoes and went "oh, ♥♥♥♥. Family. My entire family is gone, and my instinct scream at me to make a new one. RIGHT NOW."
That's good. I quite enjoyed that.

Maybe we'll see Hong Lu crack in the future, I guess.
Because, in my humble opinion, he kinda has to.
What happened to him is ♥♥♥♥♥♥. No way he shrugs it off.

[ClassyD]

1. I don't think Hong Lu was ever smoldering with resentment, even with all the horrible stuff he saw. He still views everything is temporary and fading, but rather than that making him nihilistic in a "nothing matters so I don't care" sense it's "nothing matters so the most important things are what we care about" sense. I think what came out at the end wasn't necessarily his feelings, rather it was just him. He was never really present when anything was going on, just watching. No outlook, no opinion, nothing, and that was the outcome of his trauma. He retreated from the world emotionally, dismissing everything everyone cared about due to the ephemeral property granted to life by time. He was never going to burst through a wall with an explosive torrent of sensations, instead he stepped out of the tall tower he had been watching everything from to join the rest of the party.

2. They're totally gonna be the focus of the Intervallos, and honestly I'm glad that it was just the Thumb that acted because I YEARN for Thumb ID's, GIVE ME THUMB MEURSAULT HE NEEDS A GUN TO FULFILL HIS STORY.

3. Definitely underplayed, kinda wanted to fight all the Elders instead of Grandma. I know there's no emotional connection there but they could've phase transition battles, but I also suppose they were weak as ♥♥♥♥ given they couldn't/didn't fight back at the end. In terms of story though, they were nothing, but intentionally so. They weren't the people running the show anymore, they were literally just sitting in a room to enjoy the fruits of their labor via the Jade Eye. Destroying the entire Kong Clan was for entertainment, but also seemingly a way to serve the Jia house. It was just a bonus that they could use it for entertainment. But something they didn't touch on that I find kinda weird is that Hong Lu's Jade is almost CERTAINLY the old lady's answer to immortality of the mind. By living through Hong Lu they don't gotta get their mind's flushed, and that's all they're really concerned about; themselves. They don't care about their District, their people, anything, they only care about themselves and their legacy. That's why they're not concerned with uplifting anyone or anything, they're GREEDY, they take not because they need but because they can. They have chosen to live forever not to benefit their society but so they can live in the shadow of what they accomplished forever. In the end, they are quite literally just a bunch of geriatrics sitting in a retirement home, their relevance was only ever gonna be generational influence rather than actual action.

[MatchaLatte]

Anyone can explain the Pinky finger stuff??? I got lost in my mind and very confused about the stuff.

[fliesabove78]

Originally posted by MatchaLatte:

Anyone can explain the Pinky finger stuff??? I got lost in my mind and very confused about the stuff.

From what I can tell the pinky is organization where members are hidden in other fingers and wings. There are so hidden that no other pinky membesr will recognize another unless they have recognizable characteristic ( I.E Five Mang Titiang Star). Other than that it seem they just do whatever they want until there leader usher them to continue the Way of humanity.

[Reptiloid]

Yep, agreed. Instead of 4 battles with some hobos and mercs at the beginning of the part 3, they should've thrown some R-corp dudes, or some other faction. Not to mention, the Thumb, Madonne! They are disappointment to the whole syndicate. Why tf they dont SHOOT?! Like, none of their skills are using ammo to fire, whilst back in lore each soldatto had a purple page that could launch volleys of guns.

And everything else you mentioned. Hong Lu got easy. Maybe like, idk, PM wanted to sanitize their usual tone a bit for Chinese story to appease that country? But he paid almost literally no price so far for his change, just a bit of a beatdown from his brother. It wasn't dramatic, tragic, cinematic. It was, well, boring. Although so much potential.

About the elders though I disagree. It's a different thing there I believe. As we can see there is a worm-thing that jumps from 1 body to another, and allegedly every one of those dudes held that thing during their reign. So like, they have contributed to the H-corp's prosperity and this is, uh, the form of reward I guess? Immortality with a streaming service! This explains why granny Mu knows so much and is a decent plot maker, since she's holding the collective knowledge and experience of every other predecessor in that role.

So, uh, yeah. That's why don't nerf the thumb guy cause he carries the whole damn canto.

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by ClassyD:

2. They're totally gonna be the focus of the Intervallos, and honestly I'm glad that it was just the Thumb that acted because I YEARN for Thumb ID's, GIVE ME THUMB MEURSAULT HE NEEDS A GUN TO FULFILL HIS STORY.

Tf you're talking about? If he used a gun in the novel doesn't mean that the Thumb version of him should have one. Not to mention he is the perfect candidate for Boris ID with those steel gloves of his.

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by fliesabove78:

Originally posted by MatchaLatte:

Anyone can explain the Pinky finger stuff??? I got lost in my mind and very confused about the stuff.

From what I can tell the pinky is organization where members are hidden in other fingers and wings. There are so hidden that no other pinky membesr will recognize another unless they have recognizable characteristic ( I.E Five Mang Titiang Star). Other than that it seem they just do whatever they want until there leader usher them to continue the Way of humanity.

And that's disappointing as hell. At least as it stands now. I don't mind the "good" five finger, but their organization is bs. Like, we have Cosa Nostra as Thumb, we have a radical cult with weapons as Index, we have some sort of mexican cartel or russian mafia thing with the Middle. They are somewhat realistic, make sense and are actually interesting addition to PMverse - perfect. The ring is, uh, weird, but I guess it's what would've been if Marquis de Sade would head a criminal organization, I give it a pass.

I was hoping that Pinky would be another representation of organized violence and crime. Like a drug cartel, for example. But for now it is something weird and seemingly unnecessarily cryptic, which makes no damn sense. We have decentralized criminal organizations, fair enough, but not like the ones where members aren't able to recognize one another.

Oh well, maybe in Ryoshu's canto it will be expanded upon. And I hope to see mah boi Yan there T_T.

[Krag]

I thought the imagery of the land of illusions holding all his bottled up feelings was pretty cool and summed up the whole thing quite nicely. It was a pretty simple arc for the character but it was full of various different plotlines that will most likely reach their conclusions later.

[fliesabove78]

Originally posted by Reptiloid:

Oh well, maybe in Ryoshu's canto it will be expanded upon. And I hope to see mah boi Yan there T_T.

I wonder if we see Yan would he still be distorted and we would have to either capture him or undistort him. Or would we become a full on abnormality at this point.

[Reptiloid]

Originally posted by fliesabove78:

Originally posted by Reptiloid:

Oh well, maybe in Ryoshu's canto it will be expanded upon. And I hope to see mah boi Yan there T_T.

I wonder if we see Yan would he still be distorted and we would have to either capture him or undistort him. Or would we become a full on abnormality at this point.

Ofc he is still distorted. And I doubt we will be able to do anything about it.

[Red riding hood the third]

yeah i found the reason for everything happening to be rather pointless by the end but i still liked how it played out, Hong Lu's loved ones didnt get sacrificed for the cheap shock effect, some might prefer a dark dystopia but that gets really boring when the entire community predicts how one specific person is guaranteed to die. now they can go back to killing and it wont feel a little less predictable

The pinky stuff felt random and shoe horned in. Probably would've made no difference if that was kept secret until later. entire organization sounds useless

the conclusion was pure peak, i liked who won and how it just put them at risk. Had Hong Lu, Jia Qiu or that third guy won i wouldnt have been that interested with the outcome