I think these nerfs are problematic

[Skye]

Gacha has the baseline expectation that characters won't be nerfed, as characters and identities have value directly in real world currency.

People see or hear how good or OP an identity is and directly equate monetary value with those identities and spend money on them.

I believe the compensation is good, but I believe that further goes to show the egregiousness of the nerf to faust and sinclair after people have ALREADY spent money on these identities.

In sinclair's case for a long time, many, many months he has been one of THE staples in rupture teams for his support passive.

In faust's case she hasn't been out as long, but she has been out for tw weeks now, and people have ALREADY spent their money to guarantee the id.

I was able to get her in 8 pulls, I didn't spend money on her, but I have spent significant amounts of money in the past to pity Walpurgisnacht Dawn office sinclair even though he wasn't particularly good.

It is a bad precedent to nerf identities, as players and customers lose confidence in their purchase. If we hear or see an identity is really good, confidence will lower as people go 'this id might get nerfed, I don't want to try guaranteeing or getting an identity'

There is an inherent expectation that what you purchase is immune to balancing, and that if there is or would be a nerf, it would be handled indirectly or in a different way. I love you project moon, I've been playing since lobotomy corp years ago.

I stand by if you want to nerf these identities it should be done indirectly, either through having bosses that have some form of rupture resistance if rupture is too strong, or some form of defense that weakens empowered skills.

It might not be the best or most ideal solution, but I feel direct nerfs should not happen. To reiterate, I think that the compensation is good, in my case it's pure benefit, I spent less than 1100 lunacy for Mao Faust, the guaranteed 3 star ticket would likely help me get gregor or rodion.

I also think that the compensation being so good reveals just how significant this is.

[Cheshire JJ]

I think the biggest issue here is the expectations from being a Gacha. That itself is a mindset that is not healthy for anyone. You got good points and I agree with a few of them, but letting something fester like it has will lead to long term damage and cripple the game eventually. People are really just overreacting to this whole thing and it's sad to see that the gacha side of things are playing out so hard, instead of people focusing on the story side of things which is the entire point of the game.

[Sham!]

personally not pulling or sharding until the season is over
it's unfortunate but this season is going to be an absolute trainwreck

[Demonking]

These nerfs aren't problematic, the IDs were problematic for the game and in Sinclair's case has BEEN problematic for a long time. He's not a staple, he's a requirement and one that has plagued rupture teams for a long as time to point they functionally stopped producing IDs for them.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Cheshire JJ:

I think the biggest issue here is the expectations from being a Gacha. That itself is a mindset that is not healthy for anyone. You got good points and I agree with a few of them, but letting something fester like it has will lead to long term damage and cripple the game eventually. People are really just overreacting to this whole thing and it's sad to see that the gacha side of things are playing out so hard, instead of people focusing on the story side of things which is the entire point of the game.

I do adore project moon. They actually released a cancellation notice on the faust nerfs, but they will keep the nerf to talisman sinclair.

I admit this is alright with me. Sinclair is a 2 star id that people have been able to pull or shard for a while now, a lot of my argument has been on the faust nerf because she's the newest thing that people are spending money on.

I d agree with you Cheshire that the story is the point of the game. I myself have been looking back over Binah's story in Lobotomy corp, as well as rereading some abnormalities stories

I feel bad reading the notice from Kim Jihoon, he cares a lot, you can clearly tell. I don't think the director is incompetent or anything like that.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Demonking:

These nerfs aren't problematic, the IDs were problematic for the game and in Sinclair's case has BEEN problematic for a long time. He's not a staple, he's a requirement and one that has plagued rupture teams for a long as time to point they functionally stopped producing IDs for them.

I do agree that sinclair has been problematic for a long time, but I was personally under the impression with recent rupture identities that it became less about stacking 99 rupture. I don't really mind sinclair getting nerfed, my main issue is on the faust nerf. But that was canceled.

I hope kim jihoon is alright

[Ben bitmişim]

These people started gacha business for money only they don't understand how a gacha should work.

They've done multiple nerfs before and they keep doing it.

Funnily enough they BUFFED dawnclair during his banner on walpurgis I guess people weren't paying enough when the ID was ass.

They will never buff an older ID no matter how bad it is but they'll buff a FOMO unit to make more people pay. It's slightly disingenous.

But well the talisman sinclair nerf was kinda needed. They should stick to that.

[Saradrip]

nerfs weren't even big, maust was gamebreaking character and it was mandatory thing to do. post nerf faust would still be the strongest character in the game. complaining and whining about this minuscule things is pathetic and greedy.

[Cheshire JJ]

Originally posted by Skye:

Originally posted by Cheshire JJ:

I think the biggest issue here is the expectations from being a Gacha. That itself is a mindset that is not healthy for anyone. You got good points and I agree with a few of them, but letting something fester like it has will lead to long term damage and cripple the game eventually. People are really just overreacting to this whole thing and it's sad to see that the gacha side of things are playing out so hard, instead of people focusing on the story side of things which is the entire point of the game.

I do adore project moon. They actually released a cancellation notice on the faust nerfs, but they will keep the nerf to talisman sinclair.

I admit this is alright with me. Sinclair is a 2 star id that people have been able to pull or shard for a while now, a lot of my argument has been on the faust nerf because she's the newest thing that people are spending money on.

I d agree with you Cheshire that the story is the point of the game. I myself have been looking back over Binah's story in Lobotomy corp, as well as rereading some abnormalities stories

I feel bad reading the notice from Kim Jihoon, he cares a lot, you can clearly tell. I don't think the director is incompetent or anything like that.

I honestly do feel bad for the guy, he CLEARLY has a passion for this project, which I share, but when you see all this pointless hate cus of a little nerf, it just infuriates me that people get so pissy about it.

I understand that paying/gambling for something and it then getting needed in the context of a gacha would upset people, but I also think people are a little TOO entitled about it and went about this entirely the wrong way. The Mao nerfs were kinda silly, but Red Sheet is 100% understandable.

I just hope that he manages to eventually get a proper testing team going so they something like this doesn't occur again.

[matija123123]

There isn't much to think you are just correct. Only times characters get touched after coming out is when something is actually broken like in a not working way or if it's a pvp game and even then it rarely happens.

[Sham!]

Originally posted by Saradrip:

nerfs weren't even big, maust was gamebreaking character and it was mandatory thing to do. post nerf faust would still be the strongest character in the game. complaining and whining about this minuscule things is pathetic and greedy.

faust isnt getting nerfed
you guys are just flapping your gums, but i guess it's hard to follow thru when PM keeps releasing conflicting statements

[Cheshire JJ]

Originally posted by Ben bitmişim:

These people started gacha business for money only they don't understand how a gacha should work.

They've done multiple nerfs before and they keep doing it.

Funnily enough they BUFFED dawnclair during his banner on walpurgis I guess people weren't paying enough when the ID was ass.

They will never buff an older ID no matter how bad it is but they'll buff a FOMO unit to make more people pay. It's slightly disingenous.

But well the talisman sinclair nerf was kinda needed. They should stick to that.

The fact that people expect a gacha to work a specific way just cus everyone else does it is a really stupid frame of mind imo, which is why I never play them outside limbus. They are only designed to siphon money from people who only see the pretty object in front of them.

As for buffing old IDs, once again cus it's a "Gacha" that'll only happen with something like UT5, which is a lore friendly way of doing things. (Remember, he loves making things work in lore with gameplay)

[Cheshire JJ]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by Saradrip:

nerfs weren't even big, maust was gamebreaking character and it was mandatory thing to do. post nerf faust would still be the strongest character in the game. complaining and whining about this minuscule things is pathetic and greedy.

faust isnt getting nerfed
you guys are just flapping your gums, but i guess it's hard to follow thru when PM keeps releasing conflicting statements

This is just what KJH does cus he panics

[Skye]

Kim does have a clear passion for the project, and he's working hard. These things happen. I mainly have an issue with faust nerfs as I said, I'd rather faust be nerfed indirectly through other means or methods than directly, purely because it sets a bad precedent for purchasers.

If they nerfed faust like, a few months later I would ironically be more alright with it, it's specifically due to it's the most recently released identity people have been going crazy over and many content creators are saying 'get this identity, get this identity, you need this identity'.

I hpe kim jihoon can get a testing team, and I really hope he can not beat himself up for this. They're doing great work, games are inherently complicated and difficult. And, unlike Library of Ruina, where there were a lot of buffs and nerfs during the early access, this is a live service game people spend money on.

I don't want people to feel cheated or scorned because they spent money to try guaranteeing an id and then end up having it be weaker.

[Skye]

Also just reiterating once more. Project moon released a cancelation notice for the nerf to mao faust, they are only nerfing talisman sinclair.

https://x.com/LimbusCompany_B/status/1926993384377319640

[Ben bitmişim]

Originally posted by Cheshire JJ:

The fact that people expect a gacha to work a specific way just cus everyone else does it is a really stupid frame of mind imo, which is why I never play them outside limbus. They are only designed to siphon money from people who only see the pretty object in front of them.

As for buffing old IDs, once again cus it's a "Gacha" that'll only happen with something like UT5, which is a lore friendly way of doing things. (Remember, he loves making things work in lore with gameplay)

This is a dirty market. You specifically target people with poor impulse control. Those people whale away their money on your game for the shiny new toys you can at least, in turn, do so little as to not ♥♥♥♥ on their new toy immediately.

I hate gacha too, I play limbus only but PM chose this themselves and they should play the game by its rules.