What ids do you recommend to bring in a bloodfiend id team?

[MegaCreature29]

I got almost all bloodfiend ids (outis still missing) and have some bleed ids from past seasons. Which one would you recommend me to have in the blood team?

-N corp Faust with her nails and gaze debuff(20% more damage from pierce and blunt attacks)?

-Ring Yi sang for his............................................you know?

-Red eyes & peinitence ryoshu for her charge helped by the bleed ids for her conditionals? (Add as well her contempt ego for lust resonance)

-Harpooner Heathcliff for his health conditionals and bleed count on enemy? (As well his damage ramp up for his lost hp) (I also have rabbit and n heathcliff but eeeee i dont know about those two.

-Captain Ishmael for her pride resonance with rodion and gregor bloodfiend ids?

-Or hook Hong Lu for his bleed count?

[Yumri]

If you mean a good all around bleed team that utilizes all (or almost all) of the new bloodfiend ID's, then you have multiple options available.

At the moment, I would say that the core is Manager Don, Princess Rodya, Priest Greg & Ringsang, and depending on whether you're doing boss fight or human fight, you will flex the last 2 spots.

For boss fights, you will favour ID's with positive count, so Rhinosault & Ring Outis, or even HookLu, would be ideal here, but if you're just doing waves, then REP Ryo & something like TT Lu would work. REP Ryo is always nice to have because she is the only non-pierce dmg source you have, and while she lacks in count, she is a solid single target damage dealer.

For MDH, you can go nuts and play whatever tickles your fancy. Personally, I use Manager Don, Princess Rodya, Ringsang, REP Ryo, Capt. Ishmael & N Faust for my MDH clears, and I have never had any issues. Once I shard Priest Greg he'll replace Ishmael, and I'll sub in Ring Outis for Faust, as I no longer have to worry about Ishmael losing sanity whenever someone kill steals.

[NetMoverSitan]

I've done a mirror dungeon run with the Bloodfiend identities, Fanghunt Hong Lu and Cinq Meursault (it was Chapter 7 themed) it actually worked quite well, only problem that I noticed was Gregor's self-inflicted damage. I have considered having Hong Lu as inactive and using a different Sinner with Gluttony, so that the passive can be activated to provide regen...this is assuming that E.G.O. that heal and E.G.O. gifts that provide healing aren't used.

[Minh]

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

Which one would you recommend me to have in the blood team?

Yi Sang The Ring & Faust N CORP..

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-N corp Faust with her nails and gaze debuff(20% more damage from pierce and blunt attacks)?

Yes.

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-Ring Yi sang for his............................................you know?

Yes.

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-Red eyes & peinitence ryoshu for her charge helped by the bleed ids for her conditionals?

No.

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-Harpooner Heathcliff for his health conditionals and bleed count on enemy?

No.

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-Captain Ishmael for her pride resonance with rodion and gregor bloodfiend ids?

No.

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-Or hook Hong Lu for his bleed count?

No.

[trevormoney1]

Based on my personal experience, here's my Bloodfiend team and why I do (and don't) bring them.

Mancha Don is a no brainer, super strong identity and obviously the centerpiece of the bloodfiend team. I need not justify them, but I'll talk more about them later.

Princess Rodion is a no brainer for similar reasons. They provide strong support for Don, making them go from scary to scarier, and their passive at UT4 provides team-wide healing whenever they have excess healing, which is really nice, not to mention having access to Sanguine Desire. Also a no brainer.

Priest Gregor is less immutable than Rodion but still highly advised, fueling Don's hardblood just as Rodion does, fueling bloodfeast, and being an overall strong clasher and a good tank for redirecting strong attacks into. In the right scenario he can eat hits and shrug it off a turn later by healing to full.

Now this is where you'd maybe expect me to suggest Barber Outis. I will be doing the opposite. I suggest deliberately skipping the Barber. Here's the reasoning. Firstly, bloodfeast is already in short supply overall with Don guzzling it down with a passion and her sister Rodion being hot on her heels. Outside of boss fights where you can stack lots of bleed, outis won't get much opportunity to feast. More damningly is the "upgraded" skill she grants Don on her first slot. It drains 20 hardblood. Given that hardblood grants offense level and fuels La Sangre, this is absolutely unacceptable. Furthermore, because all upgraded skills take hardblood, it is almost a no brainer to drop one of the bloodfiends to have access to a skill that WONT get upgraded, so you can more easily push hardblood up to 30 and keep it there. Given the exorbitant cost of the upgraded outis skill and how it's barely any better than the "un-upgraded" version that also gets attack weight and does just fine, barber outis actively hurts the performance of Don in practice. As such, I advise you skip the Barber. There are better team members that contribute more. (Final note: Also doesn't have a lust defense skill, and the team I suggest has full lust defenses for any lust resonance needs like Yearning-Mircalla)

So the next identity I'd actually suggest is Ring Yi-Sang. This should be a bit obvious, he is very strong and can help a bit with bleed count. More importantly, he has good synergy with my next suggestion, and another reason to not bring the barber:

Ring Outis. Unlike the barber, she applies very strong bleed count, especially when you meet their status effect conditionals. Skill 2 will help maintain bleed count and you can reach absurd amounts on boss fights without any ego gifts. They are one of the biggest no-brainers for the team, as bleed count helps a lot for getting more bloodfeast.

My final suggestion for your primary team is N Faust. Not the strongest identity by far, as this team has a lot of strong ones, but N Faust is here to help with sanity and bleed count, as well as filling out the full lust defense option if you need to force resonance. Also, they are a source of a evade skill, which is underappreciated for dealing with most un-clashable attacks, and against enemies with sanity, gives you an option to reduce it if need be. And paralyze is mostly useful until you accidentally paralyze a negative coin enemy.

Another note: I suggest double slotting don for focused encounters and dropping Faust into support. Don really needs a second slot in order to keep their hardblood high.

Finally, I'll briefly go over the supports I suggest and a brief mention of why, in rough order of importance.

• R Corp Heathcliff: Damage for Don
  
• Mariachi Sinclair: Damage for Don
  
• Gang Leader Hong Lu: Damage for Don
  
• Middle Meursault: Sanity Support, works for everyone but N Faust
  
• Kurokumo Ryoshu: Extra bleed, other options not great.
  
• Zwei Ishmael: Some defense, other options not great.

Final thing is team order, I go Don > Rodion > Gregor > Yi Sang > Outis > Faust (Drop slot for focused fights)

Hope this helps you some. Biggest takeaway if nothing else: Don't use Barber Outis. Skipping Barber will make Don feel so much stronger, trust me.

[Demonking]

I honestly just either 4 man the bloodfiends or include ring sang for some teal resource. People ♥♥♥♥♥ about Don's S2-2 but they don't seem to get that she gets targeted by the +2 base power from Dulcinia rodion as well as all of her other buffs. Meaning that given Don and Rodion 2 slots is actually kind of optimal. Yes, this means actually use the S2-2 often because it's functionally equal to wild hunt heathcliff's S2 when he's riding the horse, except it requires next to no build up.

I usually keep N-faust on the bench for her passive and haven't completely worked out the others yet. Though for hang lu I've definitely narrowed it down between K-corp hong lu if you want to make them immortal or ting tang hong lu if you want to maximize damage.

[trevormoney1]

Originally posted by Demonking:

I honestly just either 4 man the bloodfiends or include ring sang for some teal resource. People ♥♥♥♥♥ about Don's S2-2 but they don't seem to get that she gets targeted by the +2 base power from Dulcinia rodion as well as all of her other buffs. Meaning that given Don and Rodion 2 slots is actually kind of optimal. Yes, this means actually use the S2-2 often because it's functionally equal to wild hunt heathcliff's S2 when he's riding the horse, except it requires next to no build up.

I usually keep N-faust on the bench for her passive and haven't completely worked out the others yet. Though for hang lu I've definitely narrowed it down between K-corp hong lu if you want to make them immortal or ting tang hong lu if you want to maximize damage.

Don't want to have an argument about this, I've seen it happen elsewhere on steam discussions about this, and it's not worth getting uncivil over. However, I'd much more value the 6 offense level from keeping hardblood topped up, and the accessibility of maxed 3-2 instead of having the debatably better skill 2. You get a coin and an attack weight, and you also go from a 6 coin power to a 3 coin power, meaning in terms of raw damage, assuming all heads, you only gain 4 raw damage, and might even do less damage since the final power of the final coin with actual damage conditionals is lower than it would be on the base skill, though it does consider shared bloodfeast instead of self bloodfeast. The only real advantage is the one attack weight, which is too meaningless to care about, especially when you are forced to spend 20 hardblood to access it, far more than you can normally generate in a turn, unless you get a S3 kill.

Having played both with and without the barber, I strongly urge skipping the barber and bringing other ids to support the bleed status of the team or provide egos you need. Popping off maxed S3-2 frequently is far more valuable than the S2-2 in my experience, and the S2-1 is plenty strong already not to mention helping your hard-blood generation rather than hindering it. Not to mention that the Barber was already a mediocre unit before Don ever released, and is even more questionable now. Bleed teams were skipping her before Don and now there's less incentive to use her. Comparing her skill to Memorial Procession isn't really great considering there's a price for S2-2 whereas memorial procession costs, at most, sanity, and ramps up permanently, whereas S2-2 forces you to ramp down considerably for a bad payoff. You have to consider what you're gaining, and compared to S2-1, you're not gaining almost anything, for a price far steeper than the other, actually good upgraded skills.

[Demonking]

Originally posted by trevormoney1:

Originally posted by Demonking:

I honestly just either 4 man the bloodfiends or include ring sang for some teal resource. People ♥♥♥♥♥ about Don's S2-2 but they don't seem to get that she gets targeted by the +2 base power from Dulcinia rodion as well as all of her other buffs. Meaning that given Don and Rodion 2 slots is actually kind of optimal. Yes, this means actually use the S2-2 often because it's functionally equal to wild hunt heathcliff's S2 when he's riding the horse, except it requires next to no build up.

I usually keep N-faust on the bench for her passive and haven't completely worked out the others yet. Though for hang lu I've definitely narrowed it down between K-corp hong lu if you want to make them immortal or ting tang hong lu if you want to maximize damage.

Don't want to have an argument about this, I've seen it happen elsewhere on steam discussions about this, and it's not worth getting uncivil over. However, I'd much more value the 6 offense level from keeping hardblood topped up, and the accessibility of maxed 3-2 instead of having the debatably better skill 2. You get a coin and an attack weight, and you also go from a 6 coin power to a 3 coin power, meaning in terms of raw damage, assuming all heads, you only gain 4 raw damage, and might even do less damage since the final power of the final coin with actual damage conditionals is lower than it would be on the base skill, though it does consider shared bloodfeast instead of self bloodfeast. The only real advantage is the one attack weight, which is too meaningless to care about, especially when you are forced to spend 20 hardblood to access it, far more than you can normally generate in a turn, unless you get a S3 kill.

Having played both with and without the barber, I strongly urge skipping the barber and bringing other ids to support the bleed status of the team or provide egos you need. Popping off maxed S3-2 frequently is far more valuable than the S2-2 in my experience, and the S2-1 is plenty strong already not to mention helping your hard-blood generation rather than hindering it. Not to mention that the Barber was already a mediocre unit before Don ever released, and is even more questionable now. Bleed teams were skipping her before Don and now there's less incentive to use her. Comparing her skill to Memorial Procession isn't really great considering there's a price for S2-2 whereas memorial procession costs, at most, sanity, and ramps up permanently, whereas S2-2 forces you to ramp down considerably for a bad payoff. You have to consider what you're gaining, and compared to S2-1, you're not gaining almost anything, for a price far steeper than the other, actually good upgraded skills.

All I'll say is that I generally have 0 issues keeping don at 20 to 30 hardblood by the the time gregor gets his second slot. So pretty much all other issues you have with S2-2 are pretty much void to me considering in my own testing I've seen massively different damage outputs between S2-1 and S2-2. If I don't feel like I'll be able to manage it that turn then at worst I just have to use her clashable counter, which at maximum drains 15, easily replaced by the hardlbood she gets from her passives and the use of a single S1-1 or counter.

I also feel like barbar just adds more to team than ring outis in general, though that's purely subjective. I find the AOE S3 nuke to be infinitely better than a couple of extra bleed count the funny reusable coin so even if I didn't find value in S2-2 I'd still be using her and suggesting people do so. I'm not personally opposed to using ego and counters to maintain bleed count either since the team fuels a couple of more important ones to that effect easily. So I'll probably say we play differently somehow since my experience with all of this is somehow polar opposite to yours.

[trevormoney1]

Originally posted by Demonking:

I also feel like barbar just adds more to team than ring outis in general, though that's purely subjective. I find the AOE S3 nuke to be infinitely better than a couple of extra bleed count the funny reusable coin so even if I didn't find value in S2-2 I'd still be using her and suggesting people do so. I'm not personally opposed to using ego and counters to maintain bleed count either since the team fuels a couple of more important ones to that effect easily. So I'll probably say we play differently somehow since my experience with all of this is somehow polar opposite to yours.

I think at that point it's up to any individual to try with and without the Barber and decide what they think about it. Having been that person wanting to figure out the bloodfiend team, I was gravely disappointed when Manchaland Don released, and I found that Outis was harming the team as much as they were.

Also, fueling Barber is near impossible on a full bloodfiend team. There generally won't be enough bloodfeast to go around after Manager and Princess have their fill, especially with manager constantly burning 20+ for a mildly better attack, so that S3 nuke will rarely go off. By dropping her, you can spam S2-1 at 20+ hardblood frequently and repeatedly where you can't really spam maxed S2-2 at all, only really able to use it back to back when you get lots of hardblood from S3-1 in non-focused battles.

By contrast, just like the bloodfiends, the ring IDs have strong bleed conditionals and can actually help to make those conditionals reality, with Ring Outis applying up to 6 bleed count on S2 if conditionals are met, which she makes easy, and you can pop off her S2 frequently to keep bleed count high. And of course Ring Yi Sang is a no brainer, and is a king of bleed count. They both play off of each-other well and help fulfill each-other's conditionals, and both benefit from a high bleed count and potency to gain frankly game-breaking numbers. Rather than being a mildly helpful support that questionably benefits Don, they become a mostly independent and self-sufficient damage engine that dominates the game while simultaneously fulfilling all the conditionals the bloodfiends need.

I will say, however, that maybe you are beholden to something I am not. Certainly, the S2-2 can do more damage if you can drink enough bloodfeast, since it scales on shared rather than self on final coin, and if you can manage a team with enough consumed bloodfeast, you could certainly do more damage with it. I simply don't see how it can be worth it, given my knowledge and the testing I have done with them. I would certainly be interested to see what combat looks like with your particular team, in case there's something I'm missing, whether it be some support passive interaction or another case I have overlooked. If you'd be willing to record yourself in combat, preferably without the aid of ego gifts, I'd be thrilled to see what I am missing, because I'll take any excuse to justify getting Barber Outis.

[SpaceSquid]

Generally speaking, Gregor and Outis are too low impact to be worth using - neither is count positive, and neither provides anything the team needs. Rodion and Don are both worth running, with counters providing consistent count, and both having pretty high damage output. Ringsang is obviously a must-run, with high damage, high count and everything else he does. NFaust lets you sustain bleed, get bonus damage off of gaze, and lets you hit 45SP earlier than any other team. Last 2 slots are more debatable, but I'd usually argue for LobCorp Ryo, for more gloom, healing and good EGO access, and RingOutis, for more count and the few statuses Yi Sang might be missing.

[Zeru]

Originally posted by Minh:

Originally posted by MegaCreature29:

-Red eyes & peinitence ryoshu for her charge helped by the bleed ids for her conditionals?

No.

Bloodfiend Team has access to consistent 6x Lust Resonance thanks to Lust Defense skills.
R.E.&P. Ryoshu has access to Contempt, Awe, which gains 6 extra attack weight in that scenario. Not to mention Serious Skullbuster. Yet you discourage her without any argument.
She definitely is a worthwhile consideration for this team, for the sheer damage she provides.

[Minh]

Originally posted by Zeru:

Originally posted by Minh:

No.

Bloodfiend Team has access to consistent 6x Lust Resonance thanks to Lust Defense skills.
R.E.&P. Ryoshu has access to Contempt, Awe, which gains 6 extra attack weight in that scenario. Not to mention Serious Skullbuster. Yet you discourage her without any argument.
She definitely is a worthwhile consideration for this team, for the sheer damage she provides.

I'll give my reasons. She doesn't inflict Bleed Count. She's extremely strong (Walpurgisnacht stuff must be strong) but I think Bleed Count is important for Bloodfeast.

Her Skill 3 is extremely strong but that 15 SP loss is not extremely bad but it's quite bothersome, at least for me, that make me wait until she has 20 & 20 to use it.

Maybe I'm bias but I don't take E.G.O. into account. They cost resources. You don't spam them.

But I check again & realize that it's extremely good. It gains 6 Atk Weights & 6 Gaze of Contempt which are a lot of Damage & its Passive gives least owned resources so I concede.

She can replace Faust Grip.

[Zeru]

Originally posted by SpaceSquid:

Generally speaking, Gregor and Outis are too low impact to be worth using - neither is count positive, and neither provides anything the team needs.

Gregor has several things going for him.

1) Lust defense skill makes him another enabler for consistent Lust A-Res
2) Self-bleed is very relevant for bloodfeast. Allows your Kindred to feed more.
3) Free Sanity heal for the team, from the passive.
4) Given how Lust heavy the team is, Garden of Thorn is actually playable, even if clunky. Particularly because N Faust + Priest Gregor quickly ramp up sanity for free.


My current lineup for the team is following:
1) Ring Yi Sang
2) N Faust
3) Manager Don
4) R.E.&P. Ryoshu
5) Princess Rodion
6) Priest Gregor

With this build, all 6 of your characters have a Lust defensive skill, enabling big EGO plays on demand, as well as free sanity from Faust and Gregor. It is starved for Count, but if I would want to scale up a big bleed stack outside of mirror dungeon, I would just use "The Gripping" on Faust on the setup turn, and then use "Sanguine Desire" EGO from Rodion on the follow up.

If you want to play into the Bloodfiend gimmick a bit harder, cut some of the heavy hitters for count positive units, like Rhino Meursault, Kurokumo Ryoshu, Hook Hong Lu, etc.

[Shirasaka Yoko (Hat World)]

Generally just follow what people said in the thread. You can easily rule out Outis in favor of Ring Outis (or even Hook Lu or something), and Gregor is useful although you could go for something with more damage if you prefer.

The only thing I highly recommend against is relying on EGO and Rhino Meursault.

SP is extremely important in all stages of the game, and giving up SP for that bleed application from Contempt & Awe isn't the worst thing ever... but come on. Your team is full of beefy dpses, I'd not do that unless it was the final fight of that encounter (like a dungeon final boss) or if you're that desperate for more bleed dmg. Same goes for red shoes Rodion.

As for Rhino Meursault, I feel like everyone who has used him hasn't stopped to think about how trashy he is. Sure, he 'can' inflict a metric ton of bleed count (by metric ton I mean 2 bleed count on S2 and up to 6 in S3)

Now, that sounds good and all, but you're using a very mediocre unit stat-wise (+0 offense level across the board, 3-5 speed) who requires a whopping 5 Envy to start having an actual speed range, but still needs Charge to have said speed range, and for his conditionals to be fullfiled for S2? That requires rolling 7 naturally on speed, since he has no haste and no natural way of gaining it. Using Yi's base ego helps decrease the RNG involved, but... this still kinda sucks.

His WAW ego is pretty good, but at this point, it'd be better to run a stronger body (Cinq or Blade Lineage) and just use the ego for damage. Even then it's a bit of a dubious decision, but it's better than dragging your team's DPS down for 'potentially a chunk of bleed count'.

[Zeru]

Originally posted by Shirasaka Yoko (Hat World):

SP is extremely important in all stages of the game, and giving up SP for that bleed application from Contempt & Awe isn't the worst thing ever... but come on. Your team is full of beefy dpses, I'd not do that unless it was the final fight of that encounter (like a dungeon final boss) or if you're that desperate for more bleed dmg. Same goes for red shoes Rodion.

I stand by my line-up. Just like you don't need EGO for most encounters, you also don't need big bleed combos when your guys just win clashes and hit hard. However, having those 7-weight heavy hitters like Contempt, Awe Ryoshu or Mircalla Don is very handy for those annoying 30-enemy waves that exist in MD Hard now. And the team is swimming in sanity, can even include Middle Meursault and LCB Hong Lu on the bench if you need more.

[Birp]

Originally posted by SpaceSquid:

Generally speaking, Gregor and Outis are too low impact to be worth using - neither is count positive, and neither provides anything the team needs. Rodion and Don are both worth running, with counters providing consistent count, and both having pretty high damage output. Ringsang is obviously a must-run, with high damage, high count and everything else he does. NFaust lets you sustain bleed, get bonus damage off of gaze, and lets you hit 45SP earlier than any other team. Last 2 slots are more debatable, but I'd usually argue for LobCorp Ryo, for more gloom, healing and good EGO access, and RingOutis, for more count and the few statuses Yi Sang might be missing.

Bleed isn't the same as rupture or sinking - a skill that inflicts +2 bleed count is +2 positive, simple as that.

And N Faust is better off benched nowadays. Her clashing is bad, and gaze is not as useful as before because now boss fights tend to have multiple enemies, so it's harder to make full use of the +20% dmg buff.

Also a 20% dmg buff from gaze is also not exactly a 20% dmg buff, for example:

Don s3-2 does

(15+22+29+36) = 102 raw damage

x ((+50% dmg if enemy has bleed) + (100% dmg at 500+ consumed bloodfeast) + (3 dmg up or +30% dmg if Don is below a certain hp) = +180% dmg)

102 x 1(+.5+1+.3) = 285 damage.

Does gaze add +20% dmg to that? No. It adds .2 to the dynamic multiplier, so 102 x 1(+1.8+.2) = 306 damage. 7.36% dmg increase.