I'm seeing some definite power creep now

[Ekimmak]

The WN Identities roll a max of twelve, unconditionally, on their S1.
There are skill 1 that roll a 9 but have +5 offence level to make up for it (or are just really bad S1 IDs), but these outstrip them completely, having conditionals to make them even stronger. And then offence level on top of that.

I also noted that the enemies in the WN event fight were a bit challenging versus S1. Heck, even the shiny new IDs will lose if they flip a tails coin at just the time the enemy decides that it's lack of an SP tag means "All heads!"

I dunno, I guess I just feel we've started on a slow incline of power creep.

[Zanfalke]

I tend to feel personally that the fact that we don't see threads every day, or even every season about "OMG POWERCREEP" its sort of a good sign. It means the increase might be happening at a gradual enough rate that it's not overbearing. I mean, being real, powercreep happens in most gatchas so that you suffer FOMO and feel the need to constantly pull for stuff to keep up with new content, which is scaled for whatever has just released, making everything that has come out before obsolete at a pretty fast rate. I don't feel like we see that in this game. I mean every RPG has a form of linear progression where things become more powerful, so it's inevitable in some regards.

I feel like a good yardstick you can measure powercreep by is how obsolete previous units, or whatever you're comparing, become. People make videos doing runs with base IDs which, although not ideal, makes them still viable. The fact that that's even possible, to me, makes it seem like there is some degree of balance that is being respected at least. Or maybe I'm wrong; but like I said this game does not strike me as ridiculous as a lot of the other stuff out there on the market.

[Kildread]

Originally posted by Ekimmak:

I dunno, I guess I just feel we've started on a slow incline of power creep.

It's unavoidable --- if everything comes out at the same base line, nothing is new and nothing is needed. It's already been the case if you compare how many of the Season 1 IDs roll VS the ones from this season....

Just nice that this game doesn't have gacha equipment & handling multiple levels of materials :/

[DoT]

It just feels that way when we get some strong new ID's all in a row. But when you look back, there are still plenty of strong units even all the way back from season 1. ( while some of these are technically season 0, I still call them season 1,as they are units that were simply available from the start of season 1.

R-cliff is still pretty insane in mirror dungeons,

N-clair is still N-clair.

R-Ish is nuts

Ting-tang hong lu has very high rolls that don't require any set-up.

Blade Yi-sang can reach 16 with just his S1, and easy to do with poise teams.

In terms of season 00 ID's.

7-ryoshu is still a pretty high rolling 2 star, On top of all skills having a +5 offense level with pretty good effects

And while Lob Corp Faust doesn't have an amazing s1 or s2, but her s3 out ranges Majority of the ID's in the game, including a lot of 000 ID's.

At the end of the day, we don't have to worry about power scaling, when several of the old IDs are still great options, it just feels like a power creep because sometimes we forget how good some of the old IDs can be. When we focus to much on the newer ID's and what they bring to the table, it's easy to forget what we already have.

[Ekimmak]

It might have simply been because we got them alongside us getting new content balanced around them.

... 7 Ryoshu is weird for me. I can see all the numbers, theoretically she should be awesome, and yet when I try to use her, she feels lackluster. I think it might be because it's very hard for her to gain early momentum without her S3.

[Kildread]

Originally posted by Ekimmak:

7 Ryoshu is weird for me. I can see all the numbers, theoretically she should be awesome, and yet when I try to use her, she feels lackluster. I think it might be because it's very hard for her to gain early momentum without her S3.

High skill numbers is her thing. She doesn't have much of a skill rotation or theme --- unlike the IDs of this season and the last. She was pretty good when I didn't have much of lineup of IDs to choose from.

Part of her doesn't make sense. Her S2 has skill power if the target has slash fragility, which is pretty uncommon --- but she deals it on her S3 (or Counter, if T4), on the same turn. So it's useless to her unless she has more than 1 slot.

[DoT]

Originally posted by Kildread:

Part of her doesn't make sense. Her S2 has skill power if the target has slash fragility, which is pretty uncommon --- but she deals it on her S3 (or Counter, if T4), on the same turn. So it's useless to her unless she has more than 1 slot.

She actually does Inflict slash fragility next turn with her S3. only her counter does it same turn, which you probably aren't using to begin with, as it's pretty bad, and she can roll high enough have to not use it.


Her main problem is consistency, being a single coin for her S1 and S2, but when she ramps up sp, shes golden.

[Big Mistake]

I think the backlash which resulted in PM buffing Dawnclair has probably informed what power level WN IDs are gonna be from here on.

Given that it's the one time Limbus invokes true gacha salt, I don't really mind that.

[Zanfalke]

Another thing that I neglected to mention earlier and I don't believe anyone else has mentioned would be potential future upties. Those are doubtless coming, it would be weird if they didn't. But it also presents an opportunity to retool basically every ID in a way that keeps it in line with whatever the current power level becomes. Some IDs could see drastic rebalancing in a future uptie, so the creep will hopefully sort of balance out. What we get is more of a mild fluctuation back and forth with flavor of the week stuff shining for a bit rather than outright YOU MUST HAVE THIS ID TO PLAY THE GAME. But yeah there is a built-in mechanic to the game that will allow them to refreshen older stuff to keep things from ever becoming truly obsolete.

tldr; don't worry about power creeping too much with this game.

[Ekimmak]

I'm not 100% worried, I'm just noting I saw a jump in power with this content.

... I am slightly worried that they're going to make it so everyone has a base S1 power of 12. Ardor Blossom Moth's skill check is kind of rough.

[Zanfalke]

We'll have to see what the next round of upties brings with it. You can be sure there's gonna be losers even if most of IDs and EGOs end up winning. Just in a statistical sense it's impossible something is not gonna get shafted. Just cross your fingers for your preferred stuff I suppose.

[SmallGespenst]

I feel like Walpugisnacht tends to bring outliers, I wouldn't feel confident in the norms changing until we see the next standard Banner in two week's time.

[Zalgo]

Walpurgisnacht IDs tend to be unique in that they are the only IDs that trend towards the gacha stereotype of being 'stronger the the old'.

Like think about it, if PM is truly aiming to powercreep IDs, then Wild Hunt Heathcliff certainly isn't a good example of it. Wild Hunt is clearly balanced around the Sinking team in a manner that makes him not powercreep other Heathcliff IDs (except Sunshower but let's be real, that ID was destined to be powercrept with that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ design).

Honestly, PM's design philosophy when it comes to powercreep is relatively healthy for the long-term. It will happen in the future, It's inevitable, but it isn't coming in at breakneck speeds like Honkai Impact, which allows the opportunity for players to properly catch-up to the next version of a status team.

[Flamesystems]

I mean the thing about limbus that makes the "powercreep" ok is that they keep releasing new standard fare identities with the same powercreep. Like half of the top tier identities are still standard fare.

Yes, new identities are getting stronger, but you don't have to pay to get the new identities, even if you're brand new to the game. That's the thing that makes this game's method of powercreep pretty bearable.

That and the fact that uptie 5 will appear at some point and level the playing field again

[Angela]

Powercreep are inevitable, once they are done with all the status teams
they won't have much room to maneuver past that, they might introduce sub status or new niche after new niche to those main status effect. But they can only do so much with it before all those 30 niches will eventually compete with each other and some will end up be forgotten because they get powercreep by better/newer niches.

Speaking of which, so far the last few banner are:
>Walpurgis
>Season Banner
>W Corp event (one of 2 events)

All 3 of those banner are strong.. Because they are the main course of this season
last 2 banner prior of them have been pretty mid and need band aid to make them feels good to uses, Outisms basicly have Outisms and need EGO and IDs from W Corp event and Meursault banner...is still contain the clasic Meursault id and by that I mean hes forgetable for now. Lastly we have Ryoshu WAW EGO, this is fall into category of niches EGO.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Heath's new TETH toy that I just got from walpurgis pull somehow, that one...is useful for 1.5 of his id.

[Demonking]

Honestly, if the power creep ever gets particularly bad, they'll probably start introducing new mechanics. Like for instance reintroducing L-corp bullets like was referenced in this event. I could see us getting a whole new thing where we get a clip of ammo Dante can use to interact with the battle. It's be most logical thing and even if new IDs wouldn't normally need the help running it with Base IDs might eventually be impossible without it.