Has Philip truly experienced a significant increase in strength?

[76561199643139921]

The key to this character's instability lies in the fact that activating EGO will result in a 35 percent reduction in cognitive function, rendering him unable to score any points until his demise.

[Natural Selection]

Originally posted by Angela:

Nclair ins't a win rate id especially in MD, that is a recipe for corroded Nclair or 45sp Nclair, Cing is the better win rate spammer and for generalist team

Nclair has consistent clash wins but that's what makes him good, i agree with cinq being better for winrate but nclair can be used too, as long as you got his passive up and a source of sp if needed.

[1162706830]

Originally posted by TheMetroGamer:

I want you to re-read what you've just posted and realize how utterly ridiculous that is. By your admission, he can gain 75+ SP within only 3 turns with no prior saved up E.G.O resources in story missions. That's 25+ SP every turn. How the hell is that not strong by itself?

Beyond that, what is this "best support possible" that you are speaking about? Also, how are you taking up 3 turns in story? I can pretty safely get him going in only two turns. What team or strategy are you using?

Originally posted by 1162706830:

Guys ignoring this probably do not play this game at all since they don't know how long a fight lasts.

If your only response to people who actually use him and know that he's a strong identity is that they don't play the game, then you're only indicating that you're just bad at the game.

He reaches enough sp in 3 turns only be placed in the first slot, after 5 successful clashes. A regular id just reaches max sp by 4 clashes. And philip does far worse during this. Earning more sp itself do not reward you a medal.

Outside MD you start with 0 ego resource, 1 slot each sinner. You mean you can achieve 45 SP twice in two turns, with only 3 moves?

I can make philip almost good as Nclair in certain teams, which is already the proof of my masterful strategy. But even a dumb can abuse Nclair, and philip is trash without careful planning.

[TheMetroGamer]

Originally posted by 1162706830:

He reaches enough sp in 3 turns only be placed in the first slot, after 5 successful clashes. A regular id just reaches max sp by 4 clashes.

Five clashes? How are you getting this number? He gets anywhere between 15+ to 25+ SP a turn from a clash, making +50% more SP than a regular ID. How would it take that many to reach max? You're at least going to get stigmatize once with that many skills, which means you'll guarantee at least a single 25+ SP once when clashing. Mind you, this is not factoring in supports.

Originally posted by 1162706830:

Outside MD you start with 0 ego resource, 1 slot each sinner. You mean you can achieve 45 SP twice in two turns, with only 3 moves?

Yes. As I've already stated he gains so, so much SP by himself, so all you need to do is use one of various solutions to boost him enough for his SP to reach max on the second and force a clash win on the third turn. Here is a list of solutions for this that can both achieve this and make his SP a non-issue for both the short-term and long-term concerning his fights:

1. Base Yi Sang's or Base Hong Lu's support passive. They can help prolong his E.G.O. state.
2. Kromer Faust. Either her in-battle or support passive can work. Philip Sinclair and Kromer Faust both have lust defensive skills, so it shouldn't be an issue getting that +15 SP a turn.
3. Any of the SP healing E.G.O. like Heath's Ya Sunyata, Faust's Representation Emitter and Fluid Sac, Outis' Holiday (this one isn't too hard to fuel), Ishmael's Blind Obsession, Hong Lu's Land of Illusion passive (dare I mention Hong Lu's Soda?), or Gregor's Bygone Days on the turn he turns into his E.G.O. state.
4. Use an E.G.O. on Sinclair to force win a clash and build up SP. He gains 15 SP just for winning a clash, with it increasing by 3 per clash count won after the first. It'll easily be positive or barely neutral so long as the E.G.O. cost is 20 SP and clashes against a 3 coin skill.
5. Save up a Sunset Blade for when he powers up to clash with.
6. A debuff, like paralyze, on an enemy using any of the various identities or E.G.O. so he can force a free clash win after he powers up. Ishmael's Roseate Desire can do this.
7. Captain Ishmael; her defensive skill can heal 5 SP on demand and her S3 can also heals SP on kills.

In my case, I've been using (1.) Kromer Faust's whistles to guarantee SP gain on the first turn for Philip Sinclair. You can easily achieve this by slotting in an ID with a Lust defensive skill and another identity who has a lust S1. Cook Ryoshu and Liu Ishmael are who I've been mainly using for this.

Philip Sinclair can now end off the first turn with up to 30+ SP, which makes the second turn easy enough to reach 45 SP with only needing to win a single clash. If he gets Stigmatize on turn one, he'll be at 40+ SP. If turn two, you can almost always guarantee activation of his E.G.O. phase on that turn.

For the third turn, you can (1.) force activate whistles again, then either (6.) inflict paralysis with something like Ishmael's Roseatte Desire (which also helps activate whistles and is easily fueled) or Faust's The Gripping to force a clash win, (5.) save a sunset blade to clash with, (3.) use an E.G.O. to recover SP, etc. He'll now be at 40+ SP at the minimum if he only clashed against single coin skills.

[TheMetroGamer]

Originally posted by Angela:

Nclair ins't a win rate id especially in MD, that is a recipe for corroded Nclair or 45sp Nclair, Cing is the better win rate spammer and for generalist team

Eh, using him with win-rate was plenty doable, at least in my experience; the rate at which he gained sanity was pretty high when he was in my burn teams, so I never really needed worry about his SP. Though, I'm unsure if that still holds up with the new mirror dungeon. But you're definitely right in that Cinq Sinclair would've been the better example.

[DAVOS CENSORSHIP 2030 FTW!!!]

Nclair has its disadvantages also since it's extremely easy to Corrode in MD if you don't carry the OP SP Batteries.

He is the Braindead Unga Bunga Clasher because of Wrath Skill at 0 SP but he still has his Penalties.

I'd say Phillipclair is still way cooler as a Sinclair ID even if you have to setup first.

Atm, it seems just better to run Cinqclair with Blade Lineage and Maid Ryoshu in MDH or even Ishmahab and QueeCliff.

[SpearOfLies]

Egoless Philpclair is worse than the average 00
Ego Philip with 10 sanity is above average 00 but still below average 000 or the top tier 00.
With 20 sanity is finally above average 000. 40 sanity is when he start to be top tier 000.
How fast you can go through his weak state is what is going to determine how strong and weak he is.
Dungeon are place where you can keep your resources and sanity between fights, it's very easy to say you can get him on his full potential on turn 2.
But what about a story mission? What about a story boss? Can you feed 4 gloom and 5 sloth for base Yi Sang base Hong Lu passive? If your team can do that, can it still do wrath resonance? How fast can you get sp regen EGO instead? Does that still allow you wrath resonance?
Sanity by clashing? With 10 and 14, which clashes do you expect to win? Normal mobs?
Even 17 with 20 sanity is not ideal on hard fight.
I can agree on average he is a very good unit but he not even close to BL Sault power level for the amount of drawback he have.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by H11DN-D4NG3R:

Noone commenting on how disgustingly Powerful his Defense skill is
Rivaling even the likes of Magic bullet outis's Defense skill.

I've seen some pretty silly numbers for his defense skill.

[Angela]

Originally posted by SpearOfLies:

Egoless Philpclair is worse than the average 00
Ego Philip with 10 sanity is above average 00 but still below average 000 or the top tier 00.
With 20 sanity is finally above average 000. 40 sanity is when he start to be top tier 000.
How fast you can go through his weak state is what is going to determine how strong and weak he is.
Dungeon are place where you can keep your resources and sanity between fights, it's very easy to say you can get him on his full potential on turn 2.
But what about a story mission? What about a story boss? Can you feed 4 gloom and 5 sloth for base Yi Sang base Hong Lu passive? If your team can do that, can it still do wrath resonance? How fast can you get sp regen EGO instead? Does that still allow you wrath resonance?
Sanity by clashing? With 10 and 14, which clashes do you expect to win? Normal mobs?
Even 17 with 20 sanity is not ideal on hard fight.
I can agree on average he is a very good unit but he not even close to BL Sault power level for the amount of drawback he have.

His S2 has 18 coin power on 20 sanity though, remember he has 2 passive
1 of them is giving up to 3 coin power based on sanity and the other one is +1 final power if the target has burn
at max sanity he will have 24 coin power S2, well first lets just says no other ids has 24 power S2, highest is W Ryo at 23 (well 24 with +5 offense as compared to +2 from Pclair) he will have 3 attack weight on top of it, in terms of damage his S2 is actually even higher than even his S3, not to says his S3 was bad on damage either, it hits harder than Pirate Greg if you hit all the conditions and his S1 is second only to Dieci HL S1 in terms of damage.

Also he no longer need Wrarh reson and his sanity will get buff next week, read the patch. you can pull him out of burn team and idk put him in team with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of gloom and sloth.

[SpearOfLies]

Originally posted by Angela:

Originally posted by SpearOfLies:

Egoless Philpclair is worse than the average 00
Ego Philip with 10 sanity is above average 00 but still below average 000 or the top tier 00.
With 20 sanity is finally above average 000. 40 sanity is when he start to be top tier 000.
How fast you can go through his weak state is what is going to determine how strong and weak he is.
Dungeon are place where you can keep your resources and sanity between fights, it's very easy to say you can get him on his full potential on turn 2.
But what about a story mission? What about a story boss? Can you feed 4 gloom and 5 sloth for base Yi Sang base Hong Lu passive? If your team can do that, can it still do wrath resonance? How fast can you get sp regen EGO instead? Does that still allow you wrath resonance?
Sanity by clashing? With 10 and 14, which clashes do you expect to win? Normal mobs?
Even 17 with 20 sanity is not ideal on hard fight.
I can agree on average he is a very good unit but he not even close to BL Sault power level for the amount of drawback he have.

His S2 has 18 coin power on 20 sanity though, remember he has 2 passive
1 of them is giving up to 3 coin power based on sanity and the other one is +1 final power if the target has burn
at max sanity he will have 24 coin power S2, well first lets just says no other ids has 24 power S2, highest is W Ryo at 23 (well 24 with +5 offense as compared to +2 from Pclair) he will have 3 attack weight on top of it, in terms of damage his S2 is actually even higher than even his S3, not to says his S3 was bad on damage either, it hits harder than Pirate Greg if you hit all the conditions and his S1 is second only to Dieci HL S1 in terms of damage.

The issue was more about 70% of flipping correctly.
If you enemies are pushover mobs that cannot roll higher than 10 is still something easy to win clash with. If you start fighting story boss from canto 6, he will struggle before reaching his max potential.

I'm not here to argue against his max potential. I'm here to argue the time that require him to reach his max potential and how weak it when he is not at it do prevent from being a top tier ID.

[Angela]

Originally posted by SpearOfLies:

The issue was more about 70% of flipping correctly.
If you enemies are pushover mobs that cannot roll higher than 10 is still something easy to win clash with. If you start fighting story boss from canto 6, he will struggle before reaching his max potential.

I'm not here to argue against his max potential. I'm here to argue the time that require him to reach his max potential and how weak it when he is not at it do prevent from being a top tier ID.

Ofc no ids is best in all scenario and canto 6 is particually bad for him since a lots of them are single target and we do not use Dungeon mode for Canto 6
beside that same issue can be applied to even Rabbit as well, hes bad in Canto 6 or in certain story mission with multiple waves
and I believe boss fight like in Canto 6 is rare or at least 50/50? because whenever we get a proper boss fight for story or mini-story, we'll do it in dungeon mode.

as for his clashing problem right after he tranform, I usually deliberately let him to clash to Abno/boss weakest skill for the first time to compensate for his low sanity. This will only imrpove with his sanity update as after that he only lose 20 SP, making him have 25 SP if he reach 45SP before he tranform

yes that is a drawback but here the thing, in situation where he does work
he will outperform pretty much any unga bunga ids in raw damage and even in clash if you can get his SP support to funtion, and those situations are what I think are Limbus hardest or most repeated content, or basicly: MD, Lux, and RR

MD and RR is Dungeon mode so I wont explain it, but for Lux or the exp Lux, ignoring attack type hes good in Exp lux because his increase sanity gain from clash and he will gain sanity from killing lower level mobs, something that all other ids (except Ahab?) lack.

[SpearOfLies]

Originally posted by Angela:

MD and RR is Dungeon mode so I wont explain it, but for Lux or the exp Lux, ignoring attack type hes good in Exp lux because his increase sanity gain from clash and he will gain sanity from killing lower level mobs, something that all other ids (except Ahab?) lack.

I guess that is good(?)
I usually just use generally good lust IDs + N Faust to autowin Exp Lux without too much thinking.
I guess after the patch, he is just going to settle on a lust team with N Faust passive.

At end I feel all this is like how people went nut with Regret Faust kit about how she was going to break the game and became the new best ID in the game. After people try it, she was a good ID but nowhere near deal breaker as people made her to be.

[Eleazar]

I have recently try Philipclair+ full N corp ids and i can see the "If" the buff that is coming next week wouldnt have existed Ncorp full + philip clair uptier 4 would have being so much better option than liu itselft, my apologies to every Ncorp main out there, they are pretty nuts and they arent bad at all (not talking about floor 5 though but because they are bleed they can easily bypass that floor with only bleed count fron ego gifts so no real problem)

The thing is that this combination of team aside from generating every sin afinity basicly can feed 2 important things from PPclair his pasive is so easy to nudge because of rodyon + mersault counters being wrath AND the incredible lust generation from basicly every member of the team except mersault so basicly you can consistently activate WHISPERS almost every turn using PP clair defense skill at least 1 or 2 times extending the amount of time he can stay in his ego form...

Like wtf this could have being a thing!!!

Nclair goodbye, hello PP clair... But im happy with the changes anyways and well i supouse not many have the resources for season 1 units that are a weird combination of bleed and nails... But they arent that bad AT ALL

Is funny that Sinclair cant scape the crazy ♥♥♥♥♥ that is faust not even at high sanity id the most broken until now