Offsetting enemy defensive dice?

[Yumri]

This will most likely be a newb question, but I am having some problems with understanding how to counter enemy defensive dice. I'll use the example of today's Lux Thread abno fight, kqe-1j-23, specifically his defensive move in the phase after he grabs someone, "Processing Computation."

I have read (and watched videos on YT) that if you use a defensive skill against an enemy who is targeting that sinner, or redirect with another [faster] sinner and have them "offset" the enemy defensive skill, the effects of that skill will not proc, at least in theory. I have tried this strategy on many occasions and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For example, back in Feb/March during the Claim their bones event, I tried this against Jun's counter with the sinner who would have lined up to face him, I have also tried this on some bosses, and I am left scratching my head wondering what went wrong.

Also, just to erase any doubt, I always make sure to apply the offsetting defensive skill last so that the sinners who are going in one-sided don't accidentally end up with a clash and proc the enemy defensive skill.

Now, I am sure part of the reason for this is because some of the effects proc because they have "when combat starts," and so I can see why offsetting would not work there. But for the example in the first paragraph, Processing Computation, it is "on use," but when I assign my BL Faust who has a speed of 4 to use her Guard against the defensive skill (speed 3), it will say Offset when I hover over the skill, but once I set it, it looks like it's just a one sided guard, the offset goes away. And unsurprisingly, once combat starts, despite being of a slower speed, and the skill being "On Use," the boss activates his defensive skill before any of my sinners can go. and immediately gains his 5 protection. Why is this?

Basically, my question is, how do we actually counter/offset enemy defensive skills, or perhaps more appropriately, what am I doing wrong? Some defensive skills will prolong the fight unnecessarily, while others will grant powerful buffs to the boss (or their allies), and I would like to know how to properly counter them for future content.

[A5G_Reaper]

Sometimes the translation isn't quite right, could be one of these instances. Otherwise, ofsetting only works on dodge and block for some reason. Cant do anything about counters.

[Damoncles]

Unlike the other two, counters activate on the first attack to hit someone.
Fun fact: If you Counter while somebody is corroding, and the corrosion hits said counter, then you'll counter the corroded sinner.

[H11DN-D4NG3R]

The Robot is kind of special, unlike many other instances, his seems to Always activate at the first attack, Almost like its missing a text line. or just isnt working correctly,
(Done it many times before, even against the Heartcliffs defense skills with will make them not work)
Counter Always activates on Any damage(that isnt Dot)

but yea, Offsetting is a niche thing if you are faster then the enemy or your attack isnt strong enough(for evasion)

[Minh]

Originally posted by Yukks:

Unlike the other two, counters activate on the first attack to hit someone.
Fun fact: If you Counter while somebody is corroding, and the corrosion hits said counter, then you'll counter the corroded sinner.

Same with friendly fire like Ishmael R CORP. & Outis Magic Bullet.

[Minh]

Yes. Sometimes it doesn't work.

Originally posted by Yumri:

Why is this?

It shouldn't occur. Maybe it's bug. Maybe it's intentional but they don't add description for it.

Originally posted by Yumri:

Basically, my question is, how do we actually counter/offset enemy defensive skills, or perhaps more appropriately, what am I doing wrong?

Defense Skills must Clash against Defense Skills to Offset it. Counter is immune to this.