Dieci South Section 4 Yi Sang and Hong Lu Kit review: Hopefully its Insightful

[David Bowie Sensei]

So we have two new Id rocking up to what is, the discard value team. Yi Sang, a tank focused on taking hits and dishing out Sinking. While we get Hong Lu who is centred around his Insight and others "Insight".

Insight - Discarding value
So for a small Catch up Dieci IDs have a passive "buff" called insight that tracks the value of your last skill on this ID that is discarded. You start on 1 Insight and your skill 1-3 when discarding will grant you a Insight value based on it. So if that Discarded a S2 lets say Yi Sang's "Seal Shut" skill. As its his S2, that means his Insight becomes 2. If he later Discards a "Expend Knowledge" Skill which is his S1. His Insight then becomes 1. Its also important to note, you can't discard a defensive skill and EGO, so if you wish to keep your Insight at a certain number, you can hold those skills, while selecting your discard skills and no skills are discarded, meaning your Insight stays the same.

Dieci South Section 4 Yi Sang 00
Yi Sang follows suit of our other Tank Dieci, Rodion, in that both work with the gimmick of discarding skills to get shield, while also having aggro as a way to pull tank. They even sure the want to be hit, though we will talk about his passives in a moment.

Sins/EGO: S1 Gluttony coin 2, S2 Lust coin 3, S3 Sloth coin 4, Defend (Sloth at Uptie 4) coin 1
At first glance fueling of his EGO make seems off putting. His sloth being on his S3 and while most people don;'t like using Defensive skills, Discard IDs like this are not only more likely to use said defensive skill, but get a high amount of shield, while cycling into S3 faster.
So sloth that is on all his EGOs can be fueled rather nicely. While he lacks a sinking EGO he does make up for it, by being able to Self fuel a decent EGO, Dimension Shredder. While not being a great passive wise, it is high clashing EGO that can do quite a lot of damage with a tiny bit of rupture fueled. Another Keen EGO to note, is more based on his speed, if we end up with a fast Yi Sang, might be seen more, Wishing Cairn. Its effect to inflict Sloth Fragility, while inflicting Paralysis works well with Dieci and this ID, both having High coin amount S3, that could allow a target to be burst down with a easy to do setup.

Passive- Sinking Knowledge:
This IDs sinking could be seen as odd. As show on the kit he only has his S2 making sinking which we know is value is based on Insight (1-3). While his last coin on his S3 inflicts sinking count. So where does he get more sinking from? Being attacked. Its important to note that each coin is an "attack", so each attack the enemy makes means Inflicting Sinking on them. The effect will also inflict more Sinking if Yi Sang is shielded.
Now being hit is not the best, but as this unit will have shield far often than not, its a lot safer taking one sided or bad clash attacks, if it means getting the Sinking Potency up, so his Sinking matter effects trigger. The only strict downsides is if things are going well, this passive will most likely never trigger or that the sinking is only Potency which can be removed quite quickly by an ally with only a single coin by just the passive alone.
As we also have seen caps on these effects, like on W Corp Meursault and EGO Attack Effervescent Hong Lu, I do wonder if a Cap will also be placed on this passive, making it not as good against multi coin attacks.

Support Passive - Reviewed Knowledge
A very strict passive, but a powerful one. Allowing any Discard skill ID to gain fake Insight can be pretty nice. Though being the fastest ally could be rough. As it stands your only 3 allies that can Discard are not strictly on the fastest end. with a 4-6 on Dieci Rodion and a 3-7 on Molar Outis. Though when they are the fastest, allow them to pull off unsafe clashes, with shield to back them up, could be the difference between the unit dying or living another turn. [This is also quite a busted passive for solo Discard users, as they will always be the highest, if the passive has no Max cap for uses, could mean very high levels of shield, that can outclass broken MD3H bosses]

S1 - Expend Knowledge : Piece Gluttony, Coin 2
This is a strong skill 1. Don't let the simple 2 coin or small lower stagger threshold on hit equal to your insight fool you. This reason this is so strong is due to having the ability to discard high skill. Quite a lot of the time IDs will end up, in some fights with two S1s and thats that. With Discard you would normally use a defensive skill to get rid of them both, but left you open for attacks. Not only does this allow you clash, instead, which could end you up dealing damage, rather than trying to block it, but removes the other skill normally ending up the next turn with at least a S2 Minimum. That makes it shockly good doing so much for what should be your most basic skill.
The skill also follows Dieci Rodion in that discarding it grants shield. While having a coin power up based on sinking is a nice bonus.

S2 - Seal Shut : Blunt Lust, Coin 3
This skill is a rough one, with juggling discard being the key to how good this is and learning when not to discard.
It has the normal Shield on Discard gain, grants aggro on use, while having sinking coin power bonus.
But its Sinking its coin 2 and coin 3 inflicts is key to using this right. Its based on Insight.
So in a bad spot, this sinking 1 Sinking, then 1 Sinking. On a best case when you Insight is at 3, its 3 Sinking, then 3 Sinking, which is quite good. But keeping your Insight at high than two means you may need to hold off on discarding skills and timing the S2 so it gets better Sinking hits. This can make it tricky at times as you can only store in a defend or EGO attack, the bottom row of skills on the dashboard meaning if you have a S1 on top and S2 on bottom, you may find it rough using a low Sinking S2.

S3 - Grace of Knowledge: Blunt Sloth, Coin 4
So both this ID and Hong Lu, have flipped the head on Discard. With this being the only skill that doesn't Discard. Meaning playing this strong skill, won't have you Discarding a skill 1 like Dieci Rodion and setting you back.
A simple last coin Inflict Sinking Count on hit. Its coin power clause is always a strange one, being at 50% or less, gaining coin power. While Coin power gain is strong on high coin skills like this, having low life, is not how this ID works. This ID focus is on Shielding all damage, while having Aggro to pull targets. Taking proper health damage should not come up much for this ID, but its strongest attack cares for health loss. What it lacks is timing. having zero Sinking Count on the first 3 Coins means, very little chance of keeping Sinking going unless you have a high count to start with, which this ID can not do. Dieci Rodion's S3 is strong due to it inflicting at the first and last coin, meaning the attack rarely loses Sinking. But having it only at the end damns this skill to use the Sinking Potency it creates and leaves a sinking count with 1 Potency Behind. Unless this Count is 4+ you won't see this Skill keeping up any sinking, past just taking hits.

Defensive Skill - Fixated Study: Defend (Sloth)
So as Discard IDs have often a skill for Discarding, this ID and Hong Lu both have their more slots matter Discard linked to their Defensive skill. What does Discard 2 of this unit's Skills in ascending order of ranks from all of its Skill Slots?
If you have more skills slots on the dashboard, so two or more rows, it will look for the two highest to discard first. So lets say you dashboard looks like this:
S1 S2
S1 S3
Using a defend on the left skill and the S3, means once you use the defend, it will discard the S1, followed by the S2. So you will end with 2 Insight.
Now this does suffer a simple issue in that speed on the enemy can make things tough. As clashes happen before Defends and speeds on enemy Units can Dictate when this on use triggers, which might mess up a S2 you plan to use.

Final Thoughts:
Its rocky. He clearly does the job of a tank, while having good ways to Discard, but lacks Sinking Count to make the use of his Passive without being passive, which can be rough. His S2 also being tied to his Insight is a greater downside, vs Insight tied to a S1.


Dieci South Section 4 Hong Lu 000
This looks like Dieci's first no tank ID. Having a strong damage based passive, while having a Sinking payoff in the form of damage, like Seven Faust does. What sets him even further apart is that all his gains apart from the sinking damage payoff, is tied to gaining clash or power based on Insight. Meaning a great focus on Discarding your highest skill [Or get someone else to do it for you]

Sins/EGO: S1 Wrath coin 1, S2 Gloom coin 3, S3 Sloth coin 4, Evade (Gloom at Uptie 4)
Hong Lu's Sins are quite odd, being able only parts of a few, while being unable to fuel his Sinking damage EGO Land of Illusion, a decent Base EGO ZAYIN, while being a small SP heal for your allies. Strictly speaking, there isn't any other EGO that goes well outside of Dimension Shredder allows him to live a fatal blow.

Passive - Peering Through a Key:
As Gaining Damage up goes, this ID can get it easily, and will mostly have a Max Cap to stop this ID with more than one slot going nuts. Every time you Discard a Skill, not only you get Insight, but this passive will also grant you a Damage Up equal to the value of the skill. Discard a S2 and thats a Damage up 2 aka 20% more damage. As you might guess being able to grant yourself between 10% to 30% more damage by just using a discard skill is pretty nice.
But this Passive has a secondary effect, just to show off.
Any ally Discard Insight can grant him Insight if its high than his current Insight. Now we are as of writting unsure if it straight sets it to the value, so a ally discarding a S3 grants Insight 3, or just puts it up by 1 with a Max 3. Either way, its makes wanting to run more Discard IDs useful for keeping his Insight high for all his Insight loving effects.

Support Passive - Enlightenment
AS people that have seen some of my posts before, I am not a fan of on kill effects. They become less useful in focused fights with one unit to kill.
But this passive sits on the right side of things. Either a stagger or a kill by a lowest Sp grants SP to that ally. This should mean due to its wording of "after the attack" means a Id using a EGO attack or a skill that uses SP, can quickly regain it by having that strong attack just stagger the target.
That can still feel like a hoop to jump through compared to his other SP gain Passive, this passive should be hard to trigger with strong AOE attacks. Though Base may still be able to outclass this passive if the number is not greater than it.

S1 - Expend Knowledge : Wrath Slash, Coin 1
So the coin amount is kind of a lie as the coin has a interesting reuse of the coin on hit depending on your Insight, Judging from the video, it will may only reuse once, but considering the last video hid the fact that one ID had a reuse coin, I wouldn't put it past this having up to 3 coins. Which might explain it having a clash power based on your Insight rather than coin, to hold back the size of the multi coin hits. The fact these coins also inflict sinking count, could end up with this being a strong way of juggling Sinking Safely.
Lastly this also shares as being a S1 with a discard effect, which is really strong, though going down in Insight from a S1 top and bottom is more rough for this ID due to want for high insight.

S2 - Unveil : Gloom Slash, Coin 3
So simple but strong S2. But has a 2 Discard, just like his Evade, so it becomes a bit more complex with more skill slots.
Gaining Coin power equal to Insight is strong, but just like all his skills really wants you having your Insight at a constant 3 to get the most out of this.
Also Straight Sinking Potency on last coin is good.

S3 - Cyclical knowledge: Sloth Bludgeoning, Coin 3
So the big payoff for Sinking and Insight. More damage vs Sinking and coin power up with Insight. Kit wise though it follows its S2 for being rather basic. Last coin inflicts sinking count, which once again, is a mixed bag. But does have a cool after attack, that heals your SP if you stagger or kill the target. Its not the best effect for this but just like the support passive, this is easy to trigger more than once and helps allowing you spam EGO to remove skills without the need of lowering your Insight.

Defensive - Guiding Steps: Evade [Gloom]
Once again the neat thing about this skill is its 2 discard. Other than that its a vanilla evade skill with Discard. Its good, but basic.

Final Thoughts
On paper apart from his S1 his kit will seeming basic on what the coins do, have a lot of on use gains, so a Kit review is going to be a lot different than a proper review in terms of how good it is. As it stands it looks like a good sinking ID, with ways to get the count going, but only one way to get sinking, which could be rough.
He does seem to stronger the more discard teammates he has, due to his Insight gain and desire for Insight.

[e-dood]

I mean, it is nice to have more sinking units. Will have to actually play with them to get a proper feel.

The Yi Sang one certainly feels like a nice cheap option overall, but it feels like it'd be hard to use it over Spicebush.

I might post further thoughts as I awaken more as I am still tired.

[Iggy the Unwise]

Originally posted by David Bowie Sensei:

But this Passive has a secondary effect, just to show off.
Any ally Discard Insight can grant him Insight if its high than his current Insight. Now we are as of writting unsure if it straight sets it to the value, so a ally discarding a S3 grants Insight 3, or just puts it up by 1 with a Max 3. Either way, its makes wanting to run more Discard IDs useful for keeping his Insight high for all his Insight loving effects.

The second part of the passive might only work with his S3 since all of his other skills have on use discard.

Originally posted by David Bowie Sensei:

Support Passive - Reviewed Knowledge
A very strict passive, but a powerful one. Allowing any Discard skill ID to gain fake Insight can be pretty nice. Though being the fastest ally could be rough. As it stands your only 3 allies that can Discard are not strictly on the fastest end. with a 4-6 on Dieci Rodion and a 3-7 on Molar Outis. Though when they are the fastest, allow them to pull off unsafe clashes, with shield to back them up, could be the difference between the unit dying or living another turn. [This is also quite a busted passive for solo Discard users, as they will always be the highest, if the passive has no Max cap for uses, could mean very high levels of shield, that can outclass broken MD3H bosses]

While this in solo can be very fun (and busted, as far as I’m aware nobody said the Dieci Rodia can`t use it)

[Hinamina]

Can't wait for the anni character! I can't remember the last banner that i was glad to get the character because each and every one of them is fひcking mid. Just like this Dieci crap. So i cant wait for anni, just to get disappointed again! Man, i love this gacha!

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by Iggy the Unwise:

The second part of the passive might only work with his S3 since all of his other skills have on use discard.

Posted in another thread but I'll repeat here that it's possible to use Defence skills to prevent Discard as long as you're using their top skill, since the bottom can be covered by a Defence skill and protected from Discard as a result.

[Evtushenko]

NO potency

[e-dood]

Looking at Hong Lu's passive, it's pretty funny. Who knew that the Molar office were good friends with the Dieci office.

[David Bowie Sensei]

Originally posted by 人間失格:

Can't wait for the anni character! I can't remember the last banner that i was glad to get the character because each and every one of them is fひcking mid. Just like this Dieci crap. So i cant wait for anni, just to get disappointed again! Man, i love this gacha!

You do know Cinq Sinclair is considering stupidly strong. Same with Pequod Heath. Meanwhile what is Anni? First people talking about the "Director" and now a Anni?

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

Originally posted by Iggy the Unwise:

The second part of the passive might only work with his S3 since all of his other skills have on use discard.

Posted in another thread but I'll repeat here that it's possible to use Defence skills to prevent Discard as long as you're using their top skill, since the bottom can be covered by a Defence skill and protected from Discard as a result.

Its why I talked about defend and EGO attacks in The Insight stuff. I was quite happy I clocked onto this when Dieci Rodion first came out, with informing quite a few people on steam and solo runners about it.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by David Bowie Sensei:

Originally posted by 人間失格:

Can't wait for the anni character! I can't remember the last banner that i was glad to get the character because each and every one of them is fひcking mid. Just like this Dieci crap. So i cant wait for anni, just to get disappointed again! Man, i love this gacha!

You do know Cinq Sinclair is considering stupidly strong. Same with Pequod Heath. Meanwhile what is Anni? First people talking about the "Director" and now a Anni?

Perhaps he meant anniversary? it's about the only thing I can think of.

And I do find it funny to see someone call the last few banners "mid" as, yeah, these IDs have been pretty good.

[David Bowie Sensei]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Perhaps he meant anniversary? it's about the only thing I can think of.

And I do find it funny to see someone call the last few banners "mid" as, yeah, these IDs have been pretty good.

Yeah I guess anniversary makes sense. Though unsure if we are getting IDs for the anniversary.
I've also had a good time with the newer IDs, I think the only rough Id this season has been LCCB Ryoshu [Though I use her in my Poise Team], having rough Poise and maybe Middle Meursault, though his S2 and passives are pretty great.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by David Bowie Sensei:

Originally posted by e-dood:

Perhaps he meant anniversary? it's about the only thing I can think of.

And I do find it funny to see someone call the last few banners "mid" as, yeah, these IDs have been pretty good.

Yeah I guess anniversary makes sense. Though unsure if we are getting IDs for the anniversary.
I've also had a good time with the newer IDs, I think the only rough Id this season has been LCCB Ryoshu [Though I use her in my Poise Team], having rough Poise and maybe Middle Meursault, though his S2 and passives are pretty great.

I have a feeling PM might go for something fairly basic for the anniversary, like free lunacy and various tickets for the first year.

LCCB Ryoshu is such a funny unit for me. She gives me some serious dopamine rush when her skill three last coin hits the crit.

[Bishop]

Honglu seems fine, I'd rather prefer them to keep discard with s3 as a gimmick but it is what it is. Yusang feels more like "we already have spicebush at home" meme. Not necessarily bad, just redundant.

[1162706830]

Discard S3 is not good. And reuse does not help in clash.
Well at least he has a discard S2 and a good dmg passive.

[Wood mmr scholar]

Dieci is cringe

[Om3ga-Z3ro]

Originally posted by David Bowie Sensei:

Originally posted by 人間失格:

Can't wait for the anni character! I can't remember the last banner that i was glad to get the character because each and every one of them is fひcking mid. Just like this Dieci crap. So i cant wait for anni, just to get disappointed again! Man, i love this gacha!

You do know Cinq Sinclair is considering stupidly strong. Same with Pequod Heath. Meanwhile what is Anni? First people talking about the "Director" and now a Anni?

He considers them mid because he wants ID's that you just need to spam Win Rate, like most others that play this like an AFK mobile game.

[Wood mmr scholar]

Originally posted by Om3ga-Z3ro:

Originally posted by David Bowie Sensei:

You do know Cinq Sinclair is considering stupidly strong. Same with Pequod Heath. Meanwhile what is Anni? First people talking about the "Director" and now a Anni?

He considers them mid because he wants ID's that you just need to spam Win Rate, like most others that play this like an AFK mobile game.

Eventhough it should play as an AFK mobile game, with only certain content making you activate your brain.