DEM

[Lunatic Lord]

So...that hair-obsessed loonie kicks our asses, the laws make it impossible for Vergilius to enter...so how does that old man do exactly what was stated to be impossible?

Sounds to me like PM wrote themselves into a corner with that encounter.

In more ways than one, the Middle shouldn't have been involved.

[Hel Spites]

Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about what tv tropes has to say? Since when was that site an authority on anything?

[Angela]

Първоначално публикувано от DoT:

Първоначално публикувано от Minh:

His wife is The Black Silence.

Part of the reason he was given the name the black silence was because of his perception blocking mask, he didn't really talk much, and kept his identity hidden with it. So unless you knew him personally, you really wouldn't know who he was, which was why he was able to walk the streets without people yelling " YO IS THAT THE BLACK SILENCE?" after his wife died. And he was just working odd jobs as a grade 9 fixer.

You are thinking about the gloves, they were his wife's weapon, but i don't recall them ever mentioning that his wife was the black color. But even if it were the case, his wife is dead and the color black is available, Roland was more then capable of being a color fixer, therefore the color was passed down to him. Also Titles are not passed down if i'm not mistaken, it's the reason why the red gaze isn't labeled as "The Red Mist 2, Electric Boogaloo"

it was mentioned in the Artbook:
>When he was using his wife gloves, Mistaking him for the Black Silance
https://i.imgur.com/6qvYODX.png

[TheMetroGamer]

Първоначално публикувано от Lunatic Lord:

Oh, here's what Tv Tropes says about the Elder:

Deus ex Machina: His arrival is pretty much the only reason the Sinners' journey as a whole doesn't stop right then and there at the hands of the Middle's Big Brother, given how Faust was so uncharacteristically desperate that she requests Dante to self-destruct themself to keep the Golden Boughs out of reach, and she also claims that Vergilius would not be able to arrive in time to stop the Middle's slaughter despite the instigating conditions already being met.

Yeah, it's not just me.

Here are some reasons as to why the Indigo Elder arrived the way he did provided by the users here.

Първоначално публикувано от Hel Spites:

When they first get into the LCB branch facility Vergilius says that there's only 4 calamities left in the great lake. When they ask him what he means, he says that they'll find out soon enough. He obviously knew that they were going to meet the elder sooner or later.

This is Vergilius telling you directly that they're going to meet the Indigo Elder soon after they depart from the ship.

Първоначално публикувано от Terratrox:

Because he doesn't care and wasn't paying attention? According to Faust, the Middle shouldn't have been involved, meaning Verg wasn't expecting them. And the Sinners are able to handle the small fry of the City without issue.

This is Faust directly telling you how Vergilius couldn't have known anything was happening and consequently ignorant to the current situation

Първоначално публикувано от CarThief:

Heck. Maybe he didn't break any rules, and he was able to enter from where he was? Was more of a time problem then a inability for him anyway. Verg could eat em alive, but he can't magically teleport himself over. Each colour their own gimmicks (speaking of, who knows what his is).

And, this is personally one of the best explanations here.


Question: Did you even look at the map on Chapter 5?

The Lobotomy Corp Branch facility borders seven different lakes. Now, Vergilius was in the zone furthest from the group; the one on the literal other side of the lake from where the group fought the Big Brother. He was as far away as possible from the group. While he may be a Color, I doubt he can instantly transport himself to where they were, which is why he wasn't of much help. Even if he did, the Waves might've just killed everyone by the time he arrives. Or, the Big Brother would've just killed everybody when the Waves would've started.

Now, for the Indigo Elder, he could've entered from potentially four different lakes nearby, all of which have their own laws. Key word their own laws, meaning they are different laws. In better terms, the laws that kept Vergilius from interfering were different to the ones that applied to the Indigo Elder.

For the record, I'm still waiting on that citation from where you stated that "the group made it clear that skiffs can be noticed by Whales and Mermaids." I've yet to see whether or not the laws can be applied to skiffs.

[Zalgo]

Using TV Tropes for your argument pretty much killed every ounce of legitimacy in your argument.

I ♥♥♥♥ you not, ANYONE can edit TV Tropes in whatever way floats their boat. For all we know, you were the one who added in the Deus Ex Machina trope yourself. Obviously, their isn't proof that you did or didn't, but it's because of this that makes using such an easily changed website such a poor argument to make.

It's like citing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Wikipedia for your research articles, that just doesn't fly.

[SmallGespenst]

TV tropes saying it doesn't imply anything beyond the fact the at least one person thinks it. It's also particularly funny that the entry cites Faust's reaction because she's spent the whole chapter being extremely wrong about things and demonstrating that she has no real knowledge of how any of this stuff works. Her self-destruct lines are actually a pretty organic way to tell the player that "No, Faust doesn't know everything, she just thinks she does."

[Hexaton]

This is the stupidest discussion I've ever seen.

Here's the simple explanation.
1. There's no way for them to relay to Vergilius that he needs to come.
2. Mephistopheles wouldn't be able to arrive in 2 hours.

The reason why Indigo was able to arrive on time.
1. He didn't, he was already there anyhow, and it's a coincidence he arrived right when he did.
2. Again, reinforcing the point above, he's probably already there, so what's the problem?

[DEMOPLS]

Yes. Yes.

[Minh]

Първоначално публикувано от DEMOPLS:

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Coincidence.

[SeasonedSoulsBorne]

tv tropes is more something you read for fun than something you take seriously as an information source

[Sergalius]

Vergilius doesnt want to be involved as long as he can. he is too well-known and..
Lapis.
Old times.
Anxiety.
Purple tear
Death.
He is trying to hate and look down on us. Not because of own flaws. But because of own Virtues.

Now if we think about the topic - laws are just a way to work with local abnormalities and perhaps a bit proxy from local corp, which are defending own singularity.
First grade fixer, knowing as Color Indigo. who has seen.. OUTBOUNDS OF the cursed place as the city, guess can ignore anything about it.
Plus City now and city year ago- different place. People became stronger in general. He can just IGNORE IT NOW. because of spoilers.
It was a classical act of deus ex machine,but with some roots.
we are playing THE DIVINE COMEDY AFTER ALL

[Terratrox]

Първоначално публикувано от SeasonedSoulsBorne:

tv tropes is more something you read for fun than something you take seriously as an information source

This. You can take it for information when it comes to reading about something that you don't know anything about, but it's weak in terms of veracity. It's like using wikipedia as your source for a research paper.

[Mithridate]

Honestly I always thought the indigo elder just jumped over from a different zone just like the twinhook pirates used ropes attached to harpoons to get to the lob corp branch zone while their ships are in a different zone.

Either that or he was already in the lob corp area of the lake since he was obviously searching for locations that the pallid whale visited. The indigo elder also probably does not really care as much about the laws of the lake, since he seems to have little to fear from the whales and waves that result from breaking any such law. Who knows maybe he was just fighting through a wave in a different zone or even a part of the zone the lob corp branch was in before reaching Dante and the sinners.

As for why Vergilius did not intervene... Honestly my personal theory is that all of it was planned, despite Faust stating otherwise. It just seems too much of a coincidence and it would strenghten the dynamic between Ishmael and Dante further, (I still think the whole build up with Dante being the one to get Ishmael to snap out of her obsession could have been handled better, but that is besides the point), while bringing us someone capable like the elder to assist us in reaching the whale and the bough.

There are also a bunch of other possible reasons why Vergilius might not have been able to reach us in time but listing them all would take forever.