Another fascinating Project Moon game...

[Beje]

...that I just can't get into and I'm sad about it. I really do find their worldbuilding and storytelling intriguing and fascinating, I love the voice acting (don't mind it's in korean at all), but for the love of God I just can't get into the gameplay in any of their games. And I really tried them all (but never refunded any of them since I think they def deserve the money).

Call me a ♥♥♥♥♥♥, heck maybe I am. But the game mechanics are always so....convoluted for me, complex for the sake of complexity? If that makes any sense? Why the coin flips? Why the rng elements? Why the ton of different weaknesses and attack types and so many things to keep track of? And there's no easy way to reference any of it, at least a small menu somewhere which we can access to quickly see resistances, types and so on. Honestly I would have preferred just a classic tactical turn-based RPG, with abilities and an ultimate instead of the EGO attack. Anything, a combat model that MAKES SENSE and isn't quirky for the sake of being quirky and different.

And the tutorials don't even begin to scratch the surface of all these complexities, it's like "hey see this? it's a gun. here, take it. good luck" "but how do I use it?" "byeee"

I don't know if anyone else feels the same, this is probably the worst place to share this since I'm expecting hardcore fans to send me death threats at this point. But I desperately want to LIKE one of their games for once and actually understand what I'm playing and feel in control and enjoy it. Thanks for reading and sorry if I offended anyone with my ♥♥♥♥ takes, just wanted to let this out.

[Birp]

It's not really complex for the sake of complexity... idk if I would even call this game complex... but I do understand your viewpoint.

A lot of games are overwhelming at first, with all sorts of different mechanics you need to learn. Eventually, everything starts to fall into place as you play more, but some games remain confusing even after pouring 10s of hours into them.

I guess for me, Crusader Kings was like that, but I didn't really try to get into it in the first place...

Anyways back to topic, you don't have to force yourself to like a game, there's plenty of other good games out there to enjoy. If you still feel like playing this though, then maybe try watching a youtube video or reading a guide to get a better idea of the mechanics idk.

[aidanfilson25]

Originally posted by Beje:

Call me a ♥♥♥♥♥♥, heck maybe I am. But the game mechanics are always so....convoluted for me, complex for the sake of complexity? If that makes any sense? Why the coin flips? Why the rng elements? Why the ton of different weaknesses and attack types and so many things to keep track of? And there's no easy way to reference any of it, at least a small menu somewhere which we can access to quickly see resistances, types and so on. Honestly I would have preferred just a classic tactical turn-based RPG, with abilities and an ultimate instead of the EGO attack. Anything, a combat model that MAKES SENSE and isn't quirky for the sake of being quirky and different.

the coin flips and rng elements are pretty much library of ruina's combat but simplified and the damage types are mostly ignorable unless you're hard losing. then you hover the enemies you're struggling against, look top right to see what they're weak to, adjust your team accordingly, profit.

this is by far their least complex game so far, it just has a lot of moving parts mostly brought in from their previous game.

[Beje]

Originally posted by aidanfilson25:

this is by far their least complex game so far, it just has a lot of moving parts mostly brought in from their previous game.

I actually agree, this is their least complex game so far. But it's still not quite there for me. I don't mean to sound like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that can't wrap his head beyond 1+1=2, it's just that I feel like I don't have the patience and/or time anymore to dedicate myself to learn a game like this. I just wish we had more control over how the battle goes, it almost feels like a semi-autobattler. And again, I'm really intrigued by the story and the lore which is why I want to like this game (or library of ruina; lobotomy corp from my exp you can easily softlock yourself and make it almost impossible to progress if you make some bad decisions early on since they carry with you all the way).

[Beje]

Originally posted by Birp:

It's not really complex for the sake of complexity... idk if I would even call this game complex... but I do understand your viewpoint.

A lot of games are overwhelming at first, with all sorts of different mechanics you need to learn. Eventually, everything starts to fall into place as you play more, but some games remain confusing even after pouring 10s of hours into them.

I guess for me, Crusader Kings was like that, but I didn't really try to get into it in the first place...

Anyways back to topic, you don't have to force yourself to like a game, there's plenty of other good games out there to enjoy. If you still feel like playing this though, then maybe try watching a youtube video or reading a guide to get a better idea of the mechanics idk.

Thank you, fair points. And I agree with CK as well, that's another game on my list of "man I wish I had the patience to learn this".

[【Silver】]

Originally posted by Beje:

Originally posted by aidanfilson25:

this is by far their least complex game so far, it just has a lot of moving parts mostly brought in from their previous game.

I actually agree, this is their least complex game so far. But it's still not quite there for me. I don't mean to sound like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that can't wrap his head beyond 1+1=2, it's just that I feel like I don't have the patience and/or time anymore to dedicate myself to learn a game like this. I just wish we had more control over how the battle goes, it almost feels like a semi-autobattler. And again, I'm really intrigued by the story and the lore which is why I want to like this game (or library of ruina; lobotomy corp from my exp you can easily softlock yourself and make it almost impossible to progress if you make some bad decisions early on since they carry with you all the way).

Yeah, plenty of games have layers of functions and features to keep track of if you wish to properly excel at them, but many of those are rare to find now due to the mainstreaming of the game industry. A big reason why they probably went in the direction of a 'mobile gacha' for Limbus Company to help support their more niche game titles. A lot of the time it's to add depth to the game, but that can indeed be hit or miss depending on the title and player's preferences. Higher complexity often means a higher challenger, more variety in gameplay, more to explore with the game or replayability. Whether or not you enjoy these is your preference, not everyone has the time or enjoy high in-depth gameplay or sometimes you're just looking for something to unwind with and can play more intuitively on muscle and reflex.

A lot of fans of these games enjoy them for varying reasons, be it story, aesthetic or gameplay, nothing wrong with finding personal fault with any of those as well unless you're forcing yourself through them. In fact, most players who put themselves through a vanilla playthrough of Lobotomy Corporation often recommend just finding a summary video on the game over [s]suffering[/s] playing it themselves. You can and will likely softlock your first play through of that game, almost guaranteed, but that's also by design. Many aspects of their games tend to be linked in some way to the story or lore, like the 'Identities' for our Sinners in Limbus, there's even possibly other things like it that's come up in the series.

[Snecchi]

Aw, don't feel too bad about it, there's a lot of things going on under the hood in Limbus combat. If you want you can send me a msg and I can maybe see if I can help either through txt or a call!

[Reptiloid]

Well, what can I say, letsplays and comics are what is left for you. Their formula worked out 2 previous times, they ain't gonna change it soon probably.

[SmallGespenst]

It's unfortunate that that unique systems that make PM's games interesting to me also mean that I basically can't recommend them to people since they're not easily approachable and can so easily be a weird mess for pretty much anyone that doesn't like getting into the grit of the systems.

[Beje]

Originally posted by Snecchi:

Aw, don't feel too bad about it, there's a lot of things going on under the hood in Limbus combat. If you want you can send me a msg and I can maybe see if I can help either through txt or a call!

Thanks, I appreciate it! I moved on to something else for now but that was very nice of you. Sometimes I forget that there are still a lot of nice people on the internet. Anyway this is a live service game, who knows I'll probably have a look at this again in the future and I'll get the crave again to try and learn it.

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

It's unfortunate that that unique systems that make PM's games interesting to me also mean that I basically can't recommend them to people since they're not easily approachable and can so easily be a weird mess for pretty much anyone that doesn't like getting into the grit of the systems.

I'm basically that friend you'll have a hard time recommending this to them, yeah. I totally get what you're saying. I used to have a lot more patience back in the days but after a stressful 9h job I kinda just want something that's easy to understand and to immediately enjoy and unwind. Here's hoping that PM one day will release a traditional turn-based tactical rpg with more approachable mechanics. I'd kill for something like that in their universe, with a loot system maybe and rpg mechanics and letting your characters attack whoever you want when it's their turn.

[aeon]

Originally posted by Beje:

Originally posted by Snecchi:

Aw, don't feel too bad about it, there's a lot of things going on under the hood in Limbus combat. If you want you can send me a msg and I can maybe see if I can help either through txt or a call!

Thanks, I appreciate it! I moved on to something else for now but that was very nice of you. Sometimes I forget that there are still a lot of nice people on the internet. Anyway this is a live service game, who knows I'll probably have a look at this again in the future and I'll get the crave again to try and learn it.

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

It's unfortunate that that unique systems that make PM's games interesting to me also mean that I basically can't recommend them to people since they're not easily approachable and can so easily be a weird mess for pretty much anyone that doesn't like getting into the grit of the systems.

I'm basically that friend you'll have a hard time recommending this to them, yeah. I totally get what you're saying. I used to have a lot more patience back in the days but after a stressful 9h job I kinda just want something that's easy to understand and to immediately enjoy and unwind. Here's hoping that PM one day will release a traditional turn-based tactical rpg with more approachable mechanics. I'd kill for something like that in their universe, with a loot system maybe and rpg mechanics and letting your characters attack whoever you want when it's their turn.

attack whoever you want... like in ruina???

[Everybody makes fsteaks]

My friend, the other two games allow you to adjust your challenge level by using mods, so you can find the sweet spot of difficulty which works for you, which I would recommend. It is fine to find ways to enjoy a game without 100% understanding it. Unfortunately, this game does not. I suggest finding a youtuber to follow along the plot instead of suffering trying to play yourself.

[Beje]

Originally posted by thedocmain:

attack whoever you want... like in ruina???

I meant all the elements I said combined in 1 game, not just the attack any1 thing. Library of ruina still has the same issue of being overly complex for my tiny brain.

Originally posted by Everybody makes fsteaks:

My friend, the other two games allow you to adjust your challenge level by using mods, so you can find the sweet spot of difficulty which works for you, which I would recommend. It is fine to find ways to enjoy a game without 100% understanding it. Unfortunately, this game does not. I suggest finding a youtuber to follow along the plot instead of suffering trying to play yourself.

Very good suggestions, thank you! It never crossed my mind to look for mods. Maybe I'll give ruina another try if there's any good mods for it.

[SPY123]

Originally posted by Beje:

Originally posted by thedocmain:

attack whoever you want... like in ruina???

I meant all the elements I said combined in 1 game, not just the attack any1 thing. Library of ruina still has the same issue of being overly complex for my tiny brain.

Originally posted by Everybody makes fsteaks:

My friend, the other two games allow you to adjust your challenge level by using mods, so you can find the sweet spot of difficulty which works for you, which I would recommend. It is fine to find ways to enjoy a game without 100% understanding it. Unfortunately, this game does not. I suggest finding a youtuber to follow along the plot instead of suffering trying to play yourself.

Very good suggestions, thank you! It never crossed my mind to look for mods. Maybe I'll give ruina another try if there's any good mods for it.

from ruina mods that i know which makes it easier there is nogrind. Thanks to it you get enough books to get everything from a fight without having to replay it

[koimeiji]

Originally posted by Beje:

Why the coin flips? Why the rng elements?

Because if there wasn't, you'd just select the meta loadouts and skill order. Youtuber says use skill 1, 1, 3, 1, 2, 3 in that order and you win.
Can't do that with RNG. Adds risk. Most of the RNG is dependent on your sanity level as well, which is simple to manage (unless you're using nclair)

Why the ton of different weaknesses and attack types and so many things to keep track of?

Why not? I don't see the problem. Most RPGs and RPG-alikes have resistances and weaknesses. Only three really matter anyways; slash, pierce, blunt.

And there's no easy way to reference any of it, at least a small menu somewhere which we can access to quickly see resistances, types and so on.

There is one. Click your units, click the enemy. Shows you the resistances and weaknesses.

Honestly I would have preferred just a classic tactical turn-based RPG, with abilities and an ultimate instead of the EGO attack. Anything, a combat model that MAKES SENSE and isn't quirky for the sake of being quirky and different.

This is that. You have three abilities and at least one ultimate. Select your abilities, use an ultimate if you absolutely need to win a clash, hit go.

And the tutorials don't even begin to scratch the surface of all these complexities, it's like "hey see this? it's a gun. here, take it. good luck" "but how do I use it?" "byeee"

Project Moon are infamously poor at tutorials, but Limbus' tutorial is really not that bad. Even then, a simple youtube or text tutorial gives you all the info you need; win clashes. That's all that matters; win clashes. Game even tells you the probability that you'll win the clash.

But I desperately want to LIKE one of their games for once and actually understand what I'm playing and feel in control and enjoy it.

Do you?
Don't take that the wrong way, I mean no harm with it, but a key facet of Project Moon games (especially Lobotomy Corporation) is the difficulty and struggle.
Those two things are directly tied to the story, themes, and feelings of the games. If you, yourself, didn't struggle, many story beats would not hit your emotions the way they were intended. The closest comparison I can make is the Soulsbornes in this case.

If you ask me, it sounds a whole lot less like you want to play the games themselves, and more that you want to experience the story of those games.
Which, therein lies the problem as stated above.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that. I just have misgivings about it, the same way a soulsborne enjoyer would with the concept of easy mode in their games.


...especially when, imo, limbus is piss easy once you get it, and "getting it" isn't that difficult at all unlike LoR or LC...


As an aside, QoL mods in LC and LoR are great. Difficulty is still there as intended, but lessens a lot of the tedious (but not difficult) ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Can't recommend them enough.