Is it just me or is W Corp just really bad?

[legandargamer]

Am I going crazy or do they really look that bad? like none of them have near enough charge gain for them to be anywhere consistent enough with what they want to do, their passives that give them additional charge barely help, and W corp Don is like weirdly anti-synergistic with their sin affinities. Am I missing something?

[Livy]

Like most teams outside of bleed, there is still a lack of synergies and supports.

Edit. Guess that Telepole EGO fixes this problem.

[legandargamer]

İlk olarak MrFox1231 tarafından gönderildi:

Like most teams outside of bleed, there is still a lack of synergies and supports.

Ok yeah. I kinda noticed that with Haste Teams where their payoffs are just not good enough (Rabbit Heath runs out of ammo too fast & Shi/Base Don only has it effect their skill 3 making it too inconsistent)
and there just isn't enough support (G Outis relies on a finicky passive and Yi Sang's Crows Eye View is an E.G.O which makes it to slow to rely on)

[SmallGespenst]

Charge has basically no synergy so they're best looked at as individual units. generally they have pretty solid power so they can make functional beat-sticks depending on the affinities you need for other purposes, and the only one that actually get tripped up by a lack of charge is Don, who has good tools for gaining charge so it's just kinda "Okay I guess?"

[Xaelon]

W Corp Don and R Corp Ishmael were part of the team I used to beat the third dungeon with so I think charge based identities are fine.

They are less consistent than other identities because how effective they are depends on if they can win enough coin flips to generate the charge they need to use their finisher safely. But I think that's a fine trade off for having an ability that generally acts like a delete button when you do have the charge to use it.

I'm looking forward to getting Don's Telepole EGO once it's available because that seems like it'll make Don and Ishmael able to use their finishers more often.

[legandargamer]

İlk olarak Xaelon tarafından gönderildi:

W Corp Don and R Corp Ishmael were part of the team I used to beat the third dungeon with so I think charge based identities are fine.

They are less consistent than other identities because how effective they are depends on if they can win enough coin flips to generate the charge they need to use their finisher safely. But I think that's a fine trade off for having an ability that generally acts like a delete button when you do have the charge to use it.

I'm looking forward to getting Don's Telepole EGO once it's available because that seems like it'll make Don and Ishmael able to use their finishers more often.

Do we actually know what Telepole EGO does? I don't keep up with the devs as much as I should.

also I suppose that's a fair enough point. after all being a "win Clash" button is part of what makes EGO & L Corp Faust So Good.

[Terratrox]

İlk olarak Xaelon tarafından gönderildi:

W Corp Don and R Corp Ishmael were part of the team I used to beat the third dungeon with so I think charge based identities are fine.

They are less consistent than other identities because how effective they are depends on if they can win enough coin flips to generate the charge they need to use their finisher safely. But I think that's a fine trade off for having an ability that generally acts like a delete button when you do have the charge to use it.

I'm looking forward to getting Don's Telepole EGO once it's available because that seems like it'll make Don and Ishmael able to use their finishers more often.

This also assumes that the finishers flip enough coins to delete someone. R Corp Ishmael is my lifeline, but she's been outrolled many, many times because she only hits 1 coin or none at all. Or she hits all 4 coins and the enemy just rolls a 24+ or something.

There are multiple things I think Charge needs to be effective.
First is that it shouldn't decay.

Second, charge needs to be gained on use or on hit instead of "if the coin flips heads on hit".

Third, things like Ishmael's uncharged Mind Whip need to have its RNG affected by Sanity like coins are. Lower sanity, lower control, lower chances of hitting the target. As it gets lower, it has a higher tendency to target your own side and vice versa.

And fourth, make the attacks that consume charge consume the amount they use unless it gets a bonus for how much charge you have over baseline. If I get to 18 charge before I pull a Mind Whip, it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that I have to use 4 attacks to use Mind Whip again.

It wasn't super OP in Library of Ruina, so I don't know why they limited it so hard here. Especially with even more RNG aspects here.

[SmallGespenst]

İlk olarak Terratrox tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Xaelon tarafından gönderildi:

W Corp Don and R Corp Ishmael were part of the team I used to beat the third dungeon with so I think charge based identities are fine.

They are less consistent than other identities because how effective they are depends on if they can win enough coin flips to generate the charge they need to use their finisher safely. But I think that's a fine trade off for having an ability that generally acts like a delete button when you do have the charge to use it.

I'm looking forward to getting Don's Telepole EGO once it's available because that seems like it'll make Don and Ishmael able to use their finishers more often.

This also assumes that the finishers flip enough coins to delete someone. R Corp Ishmael is my lifeline, but she's been outrolled many, many times because she only hits 1 coin or none at all. Or she hits all 4 coins and the enemy just rolls a 24+ or something.

There are multiple things I think Charge needs to be effective.
First is that it shouldn't decay.

Second, charge needs to be gained on use or on hit instead of "if the coin flips heads on hit".

Third, things like Ishmael's uncharged Mind Whip need to have its RNG affected by Sanity like coins are. Lower sanity, lower control, lower chances of hitting the target. As it gets lower, it has a higher tendency to target your own side and vice versa.

And fourth, make the attacks that consume charge consume the amount they use unless it gets a bonus for how much charge you have over baseline. If I get to 18 charge before I pull a Mind Whip, it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that I have to use 4 attacks to use Mind Whip again.

It wasn't super OP in Library of Ruina, so I don't know why they limited it so hard here. Especially with even more RNG aspects here.

I feel like Ish's Mind whip is fine as far as RNG goes just because it's specifically intended to be something you shouldn't use uncharged except as a desperate hail-mary (in which case you probably don't have a full team so the RNG gets shifted in your favour just from the target count), so giving it an SP based bias would undermine that.
I agree with the other points though, it's weird that stuff consumes all charge without any kind of payoff for eating more charge, so stuff like Heathcliff's Corroded Telepole gets the same boost from 1 charge as 20, spend more for nothing is bad design.
Charge decay wouldn't be such an issue if Charge gain was higher, but as is we get ♥♥♥♥ like W-Faust who just can't build charge without multiple skill slots. either Charge is easy to build but decays, or it builds slower but you aren't desperately struggling against decay for a few defence level downs from W-Mer's S3.

[Sentorian]

İlk olarak legandargamer tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Xaelon tarafından gönderildi:

W Corp Don and R Corp Ishmael were part of the team I used to beat the third dungeon with so I think charge based identities are fine.

They are less consistent than other identities because how effective they are depends on if they can win enough coin flips to generate the charge they need to use their finisher safely. But I think that's a fine trade off for having an ability that generally acts like a delete button when you do have the charge to use it.

I'm looking forward to getting Don's Telepole EGO once it's available because that seems like it'll make Don and Ishmael able to use their finishers more often.

Do we actually know what Telepole EGO does? I don't keep up with the devs as much as I should.

also I suppose that's a fair enough point. after all being a "win Clash" button is part of what makes EGO & L Corp Faust So Good.

https://www.prydwen.gg/limbus-company/ego/telepole-don-quixote

[Daliena]

Don't have R. Ishmael, but W. Don (assuming she isn't in one of her moods where she rolls exclusively her skill 1) slaps pretty hard. Leap is a 4+4x3 and generates charge on hit, be it heads or tails, and a charged Rip Space is 1+6x5. That thing can reach E.G.O-level clashing power quite easily, especially if she's built up some sanity from winning clashes with Leap, and hits like a derailed freight train carrying steroids.

And once Don's Telepole and the passive changes arrive, W. Corp (and other charge users like R. Ishmael) should have a field day.

[Terratrox]

İlk olarak Daliena tarafından gönderildi:

Don't have R. Ishmael, but W. Don (assuming she isn't in one of her moods where she rolls exclusively her skill 1) slaps pretty hard. Leap is a 4+4x3 and generates charge on hit, be it heads or tails, and a charged Rip Space is 1+6x5. That thing can reach E.G.O-level clashing power quite easily, especially if she's built up some sanity from winning clashes with Leap, and hits like a derailed freight train carrying steroids.

R Ishmael's basic attacks are pretty good, but only 1 gets guaranteed charge, with a 10 - 16 roll and a +5 charge on use. But her Mind Whip almost certainly will target allies uncharged, requires a monstrous 10 charge to work, and can roll from anywhere between 2 and 22, with FOUR coins.

[Daliena]

İlk olarak Terratrox tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Daliena tarafından gönderildi:

Don't have R. Ishmael, but W. Don (assuming she isn't in one of her moods where she rolls exclusively her skill 1) slaps pretty hard. Leap is a 4+4x3 and generates charge on hit, be it heads or tails, and a charged Rip Space is 1+6x5. That thing can reach E.G.O-level clashing power quite easily, especially if she's built up some sanity from winning clashes with Leap, and hits like a derailed freight train carrying steroids.

R Ishmael's basic attacks are pretty good, but only 1 gets guaranteed charge, with a 10 - 16 roll and a +5 charge on use. But her Mind Whip almost certainly will target allies uncharged, requires a monstrous 10 charge to work, and can roll from anywhere between 2 and 22, with FOUR coins.

Oh I'm familiar enough with the Mind Nae-Nae memes to know how it works in theory, I'm just saying I haven't had the fortune to convince Sleep-Deprived Psyker to come home yet so I can't comment with real authority on her.

W. Don though, I have and have used to great success in many an endeavor, and should think that once she has Telepole she can help spoonfeed charge to R. Ishmael and others too.

[Sentorian]

İlk olarak Terratrox tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Daliena tarafından gönderildi:

Don't have R. Ishmael, but W. Don (assuming she isn't in one of her moods where she rolls exclusively her skill 1) slaps pretty hard. Leap is a 4+4x3 and generates charge on hit, be it heads or tails, and a charged Rip Space is 1+6x5. That thing can reach E.G.O-level clashing power quite easily, especially if she's built up some sanity from winning clashes with Leap, and hits like a derailed freight train carrying steroids.

R Ishmael's basic attacks are pretty good, but only 1 gets guaranteed charge, with a 10 - 16 roll and a +5 charge on use. But her Mind Whip almost certainly will target allies uncharged, requires a monstrous 10 charge to work, and can roll from anywhere between 2 and 22, with FOUR coins.

I have her up-tied and she's useful, but honestly I've almost completely fazed her out for someone who can be auto'd and haven't really missed her.

[Daliena]

İlk olarak Sentorian tarafından gönderildi:

I have her up-tied and she's useful, but honestly I've almost completely fazed her out for someone who can be auto'd and haven't really missed her.

Well, according to my research, R. Ishmael can be auto'd just fine.. Provided your goal is to barbeque Heathcliff and Gregor.

[Sentorian]

İlk olarak Daliena tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sentorian tarafından gönderildi:

I have her up-tied and she's useful, but honestly I've almost completely fazed her out for someone who can be auto'd and haven't really missed her.

Well, according to my research, R. Ishmael can be auto'd just fine.. Provided your goal is to barbeque Heathcliff and Gregor.

My first ever Mirror Dungeon she had to close out with only 2 other friends after she MURDERED the first 2. It was completely her fault and I bear no culpability.

[Tomonaga]

Don is great, Mr salt is actually quite lacking and probably the weakest 000 in the game, havent tested the 00's.

Leaving aside that Don has one if not the hardest hitting skill in the game with Rip Space at 10 charge, Leap is on the stronger side among second skills, and it gives her plenty of charge on hit.

For Reindeer Ish then while she's not really part of the Warp group she also has a similar gimmick to Don but she is way riskier to play since its not unusual to have her killing your own units, she's strong in long fights kinda like the inverse of Rabbit burst.