I agree with him.

[Tyraster]

I was gonna stay out of this because, frankly, I just despise every person on the internet but I'm gonna hop in and say that I actually agree with the original sentiment.

This game is a gacha and there are certain guidelines one should follow when developing such a game and before long time PM fans say anything, no developer makes a gacha game for the fans because the only people that don't have a visceral hatred for the gacha monetization model are the people who are into gacha as it is. PM did not make this game for you. They made this game to make money and implying any kind of infatuation of your gachagirls with male characters, even when not romantic (which is the case with Faust's identity), that isn't the player character is just a really, really bad move that invites and creates unnecessary drama that only pleases a small but very loud, vicious and unpleasant minority and unnecessarily pushes paying consumers away.

Ultimately, it's up to PM whether they want Limbus Company to be a successful game within the market and make money or if they want to cater towards a niche minority.

Now, as far as I'm affected, it didn't make me want to drop the game because I mostly just picked it up cause I liked the anime Darkest Dungeon aesthetic but it certainly made me not want to spend any more money on it but I'm here to see where this goes and if they double down on it.

[Sentorian]

Low effort

[Shevek]

OK, here is the attention you wanted.

[Chester]

Am I reading this right? Are you encouraging a developer to subvert their artistic impulses to instead cater to a desire to make money? That a developer shouldn't try to do something different with a game model, but instead fall into the same mold as everyone else and cash out? And the money should be their only barometer of success?

I, uh... respectfully disagree.

I mean, if your only measure of success is cash, then sure, that's your perspective. But if the developer meets their financial goals (indications thus far seem like they will) and then have the choice "We can go in the direction we want to as storytellers or junk that and make even more cash," I don't think it's a failing to make less to do what you want. If the company was going bankrupt that'd be one thing - telling "your story" and then everyone losing their jobs would certainly be a failure by many measures. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

They've got other concerns with their fanbase too. Their next two games don't look like they will be gachas. Presumably the Gacha Fans will not follow along to those projects - which is fine, everybody do their thing. But everyone whose been following since Lobotomy Corporation and Ruina likely would follow along. Unless they lose faith in Project Moon here.

[mk]

>words words words

do you really expect me to read all that?

[snek]

where's the joke buckley?

[MasterP]

Oh no, another one

[MasterP]

Also i think that its a bit too early to farm points after the last one

[Tyraster]

Originally posted by chester.longdon:

Am I reading this right? Are you encouraging a developer to subvert their artistic impulses to instead cater to a desire to make money? That a developer shouldn't try to do something different with a game model, but instead fall into the same mold as everyone else and cash out? And the money should be their only barometer of success?

I, uh... respectfully disagree.

I mean, if your only measure of success is cash, then sure, that's your perspective. But if the developer meets their financial goals (indications thus far seem like they will) and then have the choice "We can go in the direction we want to as storytellers or junk that and make even more cash," I don't think it's a failing to make less to do what you want. If the company was going bankrupt that'd be one thing - telling "your story" and then everyone losing their jobs would certainly be a failure by many measures. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

They've got other concerns with their fanbase too. Their next two games don't look like they will be gachas. Presumably the Gacha Fans will not follow along to those projects - which is fine, everybody do their thing. But everyone whose been following since Lobotomy Corporation and Ruina likely would follow along. Unless they lose faith in Project Moon here.

This is an extremely bad faith argument. Not creating canonical ships of characters isn't sacrificing artistic integrity and calling something junk because it doesn't specifically cater towards your needs is nothing but childish. Nobody is saying that Limbus Company has to be Nikke or Azur Lane or Blue Archive, just that they should refrain from doing certain taboos of the market and keep things open so everybody is happy and respectfully, you're not in any position to presume anything. A successful gacha game would no doubt give a great boost to their core audience, now that's a boost the likes of you probably wouldn't appreciate but that is because you wish to stagnate and gatekeep the franchise instead of see it grow and change which is a sentiment I can relate to because I'm often on that side of the debate however it is nonetheless in bad faith.

On top of this, let's not even try to pretend that this identity is well-written and interestingly executed; it is just Kromer with not much of a hint of Faust. If anything, it feels more like they sacrificed artistic integrity to please a certain crowd instead of making this an interesting identity and explore the possibility of how Faust could end up becoming the fanatical leader of a cult.

Lastly, it is quite naive to think that this won't become their flagship title for years to come. They might work on other projects but Limbus Company is here to stay unless they keep driving away consumers.

If anything, I at least applaud you for engaging like a human being instead of contributing absolutely nothing like the other drones.

[snek]

Alright, I'll be serious this time.

Actually, it explains why she's like that in this case by mentioning her looking into the "Mirror", this is a prototype of what is used for the Sinners right now to get Identities, it was also incredibly unstable and messed people up mentally as they warp into various alternative selves. This is seen with Garnet in Leviathan (which is about Vergil, before the events of Limbus until right before it) where he snaps as he sees various selves, such as a version replacing Lulu, Roland, and some others, he sees many selves all at once and assumes them all.

Grip Faust doesn't really show any sort of intimacy or infatuation with Sinclair, if anything, she's in the same situation as Kromer where he tells her about his town, she's thanking him for telling him a town to massacre because it's full of prosthetic users. His town, in fact.
In her menu lines, she's even giving full exception to Dante, which is only seen with the Sinners and nobody else in Nagel und Hammer. A lot of the infatuation I've seen with players with regards to Faust is due to a really, really out there theory that she is actually the equivalent to Beatrice or such in Dante's Inferno, and that she is secretly his wife or such.

This isn't even really going into detail about how Dante isn't really that much of a self-insert considering he talks and does his own things and gets involved with the plot, unlike other gacha self-insert characters who often do not talk (or talk via player choices), are faceless or have obscured faces, and so on.

Edit:
All I'm saying is, please actually read some of the prior media (especially if it's heavily connected) and don't listen to the ramblings of a heavily scorned waifuist.

[A Wispy Willy]

Get a Grip.

[Daliena]

Jebas. Imagine thinking that it's a mandatory standard for the genre that any female character must be 100% focused on sucking off the player avatar or else it's a failure. While this is my first gacha, here I thought that maybe I'd get into this because it's genuinely a fun game and an intriguing story, not just so I could imagine self-inserting into a relationship with the characters.

[Tyraster]

Originally posted by snek:

Alright, I'll be serious this time.

Actually, it explains why she's like that in this case by mentioning her looking into the "Mirror", this is a prototype of what is used for the Sinners right now to get Identities, it was also incredibly unstable and messed people up mentally as they warp into various alternative selves. This is seen with Garnet in Leviathan (which is about Vergil, before the events of Limbus until right before it) where he snaps as he sees various selves, such as a version replacing Lulu, Roland, and some others, he sees many selves all at once and assumes them all.

Grip Faust doesn't really show any sort of intimacy or infatuation with Sinclair, if anything, she's in the same situation as Kromer where he tells her about his town, she's thanking him for telling him a town to massacre because it's full of prosthetic users. His town, in fact.
In her menu lines, she's even giving full exception to Dante, which is only seen with the Sinners and nobody else in Nagel und Hammer. A lot of the infatuation I've seen with players with regards to Faust is due to a really, really out there theory that she is actually the equivalent to Beatrice or such in Dante's Inferno, and that she is secretly his wife or such.

This isn't even really going into detail about how Dante isn't really that much of a self-insert considering he talks and does his own things and gets involved with the plot, unlike other gacha self-insert characters who often do not talk (or talk via player choices), are faceless or have obscured faces, and so on.

Edit:
All I'm saying is, please actually read some of the prior media (especially if it's heavily connected) and don't listen to the ramblings of a heavily scorned waifuist.

I've only heard about how people generally dislike the things Leviathan did so I'm not going to comment on all that.

What I will comment on is your assertion that players only like Faust because of a theory because that has absolutely nothing to do with it as people don't need a canonical reason for one of the girls to be into Dante to waifu them.

Secondly, PM has gone out of it's way to construct a PoV player character that is faceless for a plausible, canonical reason so please stop trying to argue that you aren't meant to project yourself onto him. A character doesn't have to be a completely empty, blank slate to be intended as a self-insert. I have no idea where this meme came from. Dante has *some* personality, that's about it. That's not an argument.

[LunaticDelusion]

U-um....N-no,you don't understand,you HAVE to follow guidelines,because um..if you don't,the game is le bad!If you're making a gacha it's better be a mindless waifubait or otherwise it's DOOMED!

[Tyraster]

Originally posted by Daliena:

Jebas. Imagine thinking that it's a mandatory standard for the genre that any female character must be 100% focused on sucking off the player avatar or else it's a failure. While this is my first gacha, here I thought that maybe I'd get into this because it's genuinely a fun game and an intriguing story, not just so I could imagine self-inserting into a relationship with the characters.

Complete and utter strawman that's not even worth dignifying with a genuine response.

[Tyraster]

Originally posted by LunaticDelusion:

U-um....N-no,you don't understand,you HAVE to follow guidelines,because um..if you don't,the game is le bad!If you're making a gacha it's better be a mindless waifubait or otherwise it's DOOMED!

Very fitting username, I must say.