How do you even beat Raiden?

[Infevo]

It appears he is broken. Everything is safe. He can go for huge block strings and finish with a safe special. Yes, it was like this in MK11. But his MK1 iteration seems to be even more ridiculous with Kameos like Cyrax or Kano.

[Apollyon]

He's definitely not broken. He's quite strong, mainly because of kameos like Cyrax and Jax. As for how to beat him, that depends on what character you're playing. You can find plenty of guides online.

[WeedHouze]

Originally posted by Superbia:

He's definitely not broken. He's quite strong, mainly because of kameos like Cyrax and Jax. As for how to beat him, that depends on what character you're playing. You can find plenty of guides online.

cringe answer with no specifics. f434 is already enough for him to be called broken

[Metr0Man]

git gud because he isnt broken

[F0X7]

Originally posted by WeedHouze:

Originally posted by Superbia:

He's definitely not broken. He's quite strong, mainly because of kameos like Cyrax and Jax. As for how to beat him, that depends on what character you're playing. You can find plenty of guides online.

cringe answer with no specifics. f434 is already enough for him to be called broken

Especially since it combos INTO ITSELF! I mained him from day one until I realized how utterly braindead he is. I paired him with Scorpion and even posted a combo guide in the discussions.
Before anyone else says 'just git gud', I want them to justify this:
>3,4,>3,4,>2,2,enhanced v>2,>2,v>2, wait ~.5 sec.,^kameo,>^1,3,4 - 489.4 Damage

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by WeedHouze:

cringe answer with no specifics. f434 is already enough for him to be called broken

Nah, you just need to git gud.

[Johnny Bermuda]

He needs a damage nerf, it doesn't scale well. Two f34 + one other string (I'm not a Raiden player so I don't remember the inputs) gives you at least 30% damage meterless and no kameo.

Electric fly shouldn't have so much push back. You either go for an immediate dash cancel and do fastest move or have long reach move with 15-16 frames start-up. He is -20 on block and can be punished offline (tested in practice mode) but online, he feels almost safe.

I think Johnny is better then Raiden in terms of pressure, he can play safe even without Cyrax "helikopteeeer-helikopteeer". Johnny is using Cyrax more for a vertical corner kombo extender (after a nut punch) because once he starts to juggle you, you end up in the corner very quickly.

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by Johnny Bermuda:

He needs a damage nerf, it doesn't scale well. Two f34 + one other string (I'm not a Raiden player so I don't remember the inputs) gives you at least 30% damage meterless and no kameo.

Electric fly shouldn't have so much push back. You either go for an immediate dash cancel and do fastest move or have long reach move with 15-16 frames start-up. He is -20 on block and can be punished offline (tested in practice mode) but online, he feels almost safe.

I think Johnny is better then Raiden in terms of pressure, he can play safe even without Cyrax "helikopteeeer-helikopteeer". Johnny is using Cyrax more for a vertical corner kombo extender (after a nut punch) because once he starts to juggle you, you end up in the corner very quickly.

Johnny is definitely better and far more oppressive than Raiden. Raiden is only that strong because of his kameo synergies, if they nerf the kameos then Raiden also take a power hit by extension. While I do think he's very simple to pick up and play, he's by no means broken or in need of serious nerfs. He's a very straightforward, predictable and honest character, so people complaining just need to git gud at the matchup.

BTW, saying a character is broken because he has safe block strings is the epitome of cringe lol.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Johnny Bermuda:

He needs a damage nerf, it doesn't scale well. Two f34 + one other string (I'm not a Raiden player so I don't remember the inputs) gives you at least 30% damage meterless and no kameo.

Electric fly shouldn't have so much push back. You either go for an immediate dash cancel and do fastest move or have long reach move with 15-16 frames start-up. He is -20 on block and can be punished offline (tested in practice mode) but online, he feels almost safe.

I think Johnny is better then Raiden in terms of pressure, he can play safe even without Cyrax "helikopteeeer-helikopteeer". Johnny is using Cyrax more for a vertical corner kombo extender (after a nut punch) because once he starts to juggle you, you end up in the corner very quickly.

I do not care about his teleport or superman. These move are reactable and advaning strings punish both on reaction. I hate his strings which are all safe unless flawless blocked. The whole flawless block concept ruins the game because characters like Raiden are balanced around this defensive option.

If a competitive game is balanced around pro play, then 99% of players are literally f'd.

I play Johnny/Cyrax. Johnny has no reliable lows. He only has one string that can be fuzzy blocked easily 100% of the time. If he goes for a any mid he is minus. And if he doesn't, he gets to eat duck punches.

[Chris]

You have to block high on the cartwheel kick and low on the sweeps (duh). If you play him enough you can learn the block patterns.

Unfortunately, he does tons of damage and he really only needs to hit you twice for two 50%+ combos to finish you.

I like to bait the teleport and combo, but the good players rarely fall for it.

[Johnny Bermuda]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by Johnny Bermuda:

He needs a damage nerf, it doesn't scale well. Two f34 + one other string (I'm not a Raiden player so I don't remember the inputs) gives you at least 30% damage meterless and no kameo.

Electric fly shouldn't have so much push back. You either go for an immediate dash cancel and do fastest move or have long reach move with 15-16 frames start-up. He is -20 on block and can be punished offline (tested in practice mode) but online, he feels almost safe.

I think Johnny is better then Raiden in terms of pressure, he can play safe even without Cyrax "helikopteeeer-helikopteeer". Johnny is using Cyrax more for a vertical corner kombo extender (after a nut punch) because once he starts to juggle you, you end up in the corner very quickly.

I do not care about his teleport or superman. These move are reactable and advaning strings punish both on reaction. I hate his strings which are all safe unless flawless blocked. The whole flawless block concept ruins the game because characters like Raiden are balanced around this defensive option.

If a competitive game is balanced around pro play, then 99% of players are literally f'd.

Well, if you look closely, all characters are "safe" with their usual combo strings. Even tutorial is teaching you how -7 is practically "safe" and that you can duck or go for d1 to interrupt the opponents punish because every characters fastest move is a high 7 frames s1. That gives another layer of mind games when you're blocking. Will he go for d1? Should you extend your blocking and then take your turn. He can adapt and go for a grab?I hate this poke poke mechanic but that's what the game is promoting and describing in tutorial.
If you go deeper, then start with the string gaps. For example Raidens f34 has a big gap. You can jab before the second move becomes active or you can go for an up-block against cartwheel overhead. Unfortunately, the game doesn't tell you the frame advantage achieved by up-blocking but I started to punish jumpers very easily once I hear that different block sound.

When I get opened by some unknown move and get bodied I immediately go in practice, look the frame data and the type of the move. Then I record the move and look for options. I remember one Smoke player abusing one move, I think it's f4 (it gives you 3 high kicks). He was +8 after that move, I noticed how longer I was in a block stun and he kept poking me because he had frame advantage. Next Smoke, duck and punish. It's not easy, specially online, but you need a frame data and move type knowledge so you can download your opponent habits as fast you can. Otherwise, you'll get bodied every time you play at least an average player.

One more thing, as far as I know, flawless block in MK1 isn't equal MK11. You won't get frame advantage with flawless blocking, you'll only negate the chip damage which is important against Cyrax chopper move combined with opponents main move.

[Johnny Bermuda]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by Johnny Bermuda:

He needs a damage nerf, it doesn't scale well. Two f34 + one other string (I'm not a Raiden player so I don't remember the inputs) gives you at least 30% damage meterless and no kameo.

Electric fly shouldn't have so much push back. You either go for an immediate dash cancel and do fastest move or have long reach move with 15-16 frames start-up. He is -20 on block and can be punished offline (tested in practice mode) but online, he feels almost safe.

I think Johnny is better then Raiden in terms of pressure, he can play safe even without Cyrax "helikopteeeer-helikopteeer". Johnny is using Cyrax more for a vertical corner kombo extender (after a nut punch) because once he starts to juggle you, you end up in the corner very quickly.

I play Johnny/Cyrax. Johnny has no reliable lows. He only has one string that can be fuzzy blocked easily 100% of the time. If he goes for a any mid he is minus. And if he doesn't, he gets to eat duck punches.

Kung Lao Kameo comes to play. His low hat is +2 on block, regenerates fast and gives you an option for a mix-up. I play Mileena and she has the same problem with low starters. You can see most Mileena players go for Kung Lao (mix up option) or Scorpion (combo extenders and high damage but more risky play). You adjust your playstyle to your Kameo abilities. Except maybe Cyrax "heliKopteeer helikopteeer", he seems more important than main roster players. He needs some nerfs, maybe in form regeneration time or health handicap...

[F0X7]

I see no one will address my point. Figures direct proof gets ignored by people who have no point.