My Thoughts On Sub-Zero

[jesl95]

If you don't want to read this, the TL;DR is at the bottom,

His combo strings are his biggest issue. Good luck trying to "open" someone up who is decent at the game. By far, Sub-zero is the most punishable character and to add, almost all his moves are slow. Unless you run specific cameos, you're only hope is to pray they fall for the predictable ice clone, land a B+2, or land a B+3. Seems like not a problem, but let me explain:

His (F+1, 2, 3), (2, 3), (B+2, 3), and (3+3) end low and if he lands the last hit, that's it. No cameos or specials to combo into. All you have to do is block low. Period. He has no special or kick that can overhead. Even if you hit them with the D+2 or D+3, you can't combo or cameo from it.

His (1, 2, 2) and (2, 1, 2) ends with an overhead that knocks the enemy down. You're also unable to use cameos or specials if you get the last hit going. All they have to do is block low and guess which hit is last. Eventually you run into players that are actually good at the game and they can block the first two hits and just armor through or Final Blow through the last hit. You can't even try to enhanced deadly vapors the last hit for these because it's not a true combo and can get fully punished.

In other words, Sub-zero boils down to always blocking low until you see one of two things: his B+2 (which is very react-able if you know what it looks like) and the end of any punching combo. Even if you're unable to guess the right end, you just take a measly 62-102 damage (More on the 62 side if you block low) and a reset since he can't combo any of his last hits except B+2. To add, his only has 2 and 3-hit combos at max, then he's done with pressure. Other characters get 6-10 hit combo strings that are safe on blocks WITH specials you have to guess right or you're losing 300-400. Also, they're combos can be stop at 3 hits, 5 hits, or they can choose to go 9 instead of 10 so you have to assume they're going all 10, hope they're not attacking after they cancel combos, or get punished for trying to punish them. To top it off, most of their strings are safe. Sub-Zero has no such guess work and when he's finished his combos, it's a full punish. If he cancels his combos, he pushes his opponent away just far enough for them to whiff his attacks. All of his pressure is short-lived outside the corner, but ALL characters have insane corner pressure. This forces him to play a very wait and bait game, to whiff your opponents or make your opponent for your ice clone. Yeah, he gets an ice clone, but do you know how difficult it is to catch someone in an ice clone?

What would I suggest, if anything? Make his enhanced deadly vapors a low and faster so enemies couldn't just hit you out of it and you'd still get the freeze. If not that, Make his enhanced ice slide a juggle instead of just flipping the enemy over to the other side. He has one special that is overhead and that's a jumping glacial dive that almost never works. When you're jumping, either players walk away to where they can whiff you when you land or they're up-blocking, Almost every other character get a special that lets them juggle enemies aside from a normal juggle. Yeah, Sub gets an Ice clone, but it's countered by the fact his offense is lackluster.

TL;DR:
All you have to do against Sub-Zero is block low until you see one of two things: his B+2 and the end of any combo that starts with a punch. Even if you guess wrong, If you get hit with his ending overhead, you take 82 damage and if you get hit low, you lose 62-102 damage (without bar). His combo strings on block are 3 hits max, can be interrupted between the last hit, and cannot end with a special. On block, he can't cancel his attack into a special mix-up that can give him a juggler or combo extender. This means, if you want to get real damage, you HAVE to land either a B+2 into a cameo/enhanced deadly vapors or B+3. Any other hit confirm is ending the combo and not giving you damage let alone pressure.

My suggestions: Make his enhanced ice slide a juggle OR make his enhanced deadly vapors a low and faster. His enhanced deadly vapors is slow enough to punish if you block his other moves. This way, if an opponent chooses high instead of low, you can get an appropriate punish. His overheads would still function the same as they can still be punished or end a block the block string with 82 damage if they guess wrong.

Edit: Let's not even go into his Final Blow which is garbage to use.

[JD]

I main Sub-Zero (100% online usage atm) and I don't think he struggles with opening, IMO what he needs is:

* f1 should be 11-13 frames because he does not have any other answer to -7 mashers better than a d1
* Enhanced deadly vapors this special has ridiculous scaling, it should be buffed
* Slightly buff overall damage, his combos should do at least 5-10% more damage

Also, I suggest you use Goro, so you can always make your b2 safe, and for f123 and b34 you don't even need to hit confirm to launch your opponent (if they block, you're safe, otherwise you get a full combo).

[Darth Cervantes]

He also has the easiest combos to pull off. You can practically pull off full combos with sub zero by button mashing.

[JD]

Originally posted by Darth Cervantes:

He also has the easiest combos to pull off. You can practically pull off full combos with sub zero by button mashing.

Oh, great, it changes everything, then let's nerf him to the bottom of the ocean.

There are no difficult combos in this game

[Star Rain]

Geez stop whining everything cant be easy all the time, gosh.

[Cpt Obvious]

Originally posted by Darth Cervantes:

He also has the easiest combos to pull off. You can practically pull off full combos with sub zero by button mashing.

News flash. Combos aren't hard in this game period.

[Grilled Cheese]

I'm still learning but I had a an annoying Sub zone me the whole set and it was hard to deal with. Gave him a run for his money even though im still learning mk1 and fighting games and seems like he had a lot of experience. I'd like to play against these type of players to learn the matchup even though it's annoying as

[Darth Cervantes]

Originally posted by Cpt Obvious:

Originally posted by Darth Cervantes:

He also has the easiest combos to pull off. You can practically pull off full combos with sub zero by button mashing.

News flash. Combos aren't hard in this game period.

They are for me, but IMO sub-zeros are the easiest to pull off.

[Crossbreed]

I main Sub-Zero aswell. i agree, that he needs some damage buffs for his combos and his pokes are kinda iffy - decent range but i almost always get beaten if d1 gets blocked.

I use Kung Lao as Kameo because his low hat throw recovers super quick and gives him another decent zoning tool + it also makes is b2 safe (first hit overhead, cancel into low hat toss).

i love to play as him and i like his playstyle (zoning and kinda rush down mix up), but i really struggle against certain characters (no reason to change the character though).

[jesl95]

Originally posted by Mouse b:

I'm still learning but I had a an annoying Sub zone me the whole set and it was hard to deal with. Gave him a run for his money even though im still learning mk1 and fighting games and seems like he had a lot of experience. I'd like to play against these type of players to learn the matchup even though it's annoying as

Sub-Zero's zoning isn't that good. His only saving grace for zoning is his ice soldier which can be jumped over or in some cases punished via other specials/cameos. His ice ball is too slow to beat anyone in ranged attacks. His aerial ice clone is both punishable and has a cooldown. The only thing I'd be worried about is getting close enough to jump into his ice klone. If you time it right though, you can hit him through the ice clone. Try not to jump towards him for an attack if you're in range unless you have a special that can hit. Aside from that, all of his specials are punishable close-up on block. If he uses his abilities from max range, all you have to do is walk him down until you see him attacking since he can't do anything from afar. His Ice clone has a recovery of 46 and a 3.5 sec cooldown. In layman's terms, he can jab 7 times back to back or perform 2 simple combo strings before he can use it again.

[jesl95]

Originally posted by JD:

I main Sub-Zero (100% online usage atm) and I don't think he struggles with opening, IMO what he needs is:

* f1 should be 11-13 frames because he does not have any other answer to -7 mashers better than a d1
* Enhanced deadly vapors this special has ridiculous scaling, it should be buffed
* Slightly buff overall damage, his combos should do at least 5-10% more damage

Also, I suggest you use Goro, so you can always make your b2 safe, and for f123 and b34 you don't even need to hit confirm to launch your opponent (if they block, you're safe, otherwise you get a full combo).

We just got two different experiences. I can only vouch for so much since I don't play in the upper echelon of players, but the higher I climb, the more and more difficult it is to open players up. Not because the players are getting better but Sub's kit cannot convert most of his hit confirms into a combo while almost every other character in the game can combo string and get hella damage from lows and highs due to their combos having better mix-up sequences. I refuse to play any other chameo but Frost. I can't cheat on Lin Bae >:).

I'm okay with his f1 as it is. It's a great whiffing hit. If anything, either his 1 or 2 needs to be mid instead of high for those low jabbers.