Man I hate Raiden...

[Cheezelog]

So friggen fast with crazy recovery, brain dead combos for 50% 1 meter(including a starter string with over 6 hits), and a wake up enhanced attack that nullifies low damage interrupt. They gave him EVERYTHING in this game...

[Metr0]

I suggest you practice smoke is far worse lmao if i can body raidens then so can you

[Scrub McGrub]

It's week 1... don't forget that up blocking works on overheads too. Most Raidens don't realize that when trying to abuse the cartwheel kick string

[Cheezelog]

Originally posted by θραύση:

I suggest you practice smoke is far worse lmao if i can body raidens then so can you

Oh man they are both my only hated to go up against. lol Only those two. Smoke I've played enough to usually handle well...Raiden I fight them so few and far inbetween I have to relearn a lot every time. haha

[Cheezelog]

Originally posted by Scrub McGrub:

It's week 1... don't forget that up blocking works on overheads too. Most Raidens don't realize that when trying to abuse the cartwheel kick string

Yea I forget about that mechanic all the time...I need to practice it more.

[✟𒉭Chubis𒉭✟]

pls baraka and cyrax broken x

[Cheezelog]

Originally posted by ✟𒉭𝕲𝖚𝖙𝖘𒉭✟:

pls baraka and cyrax broken x

Man I don't like using Cyrax with Baraka....I get it he's good but I'd much rather Klassic Sub or Motaro with Baraka for the funsies of ignoring projectiles or sending em back. lol

[micaelian]

As a Raiden main, I agree his damage output is VERY high, but take that from him and he becomes bottom tier. His strings are rather linear and offer no relevant mix-ups; his mids, although long-reaching, are pretty slow (his fastest being 15 frames); and he has no real overhead-starting kombo (b2 ends in a knockdown, and f34 starts with a slowish high that can be insta-punished with a simple d1).

All of this, in my opinion, makes him a very basic and easy to learn character, but his toolset is so limited that he gets boring quite soon, as you are practically forced to repeat the same moves again and again, having to rely heavily on interrupting your strings to throw in the occasional b2 or throw against experienced players that will always block your very readable starters. Thus, almost all Raiden players have the exact same game plan.

Also, his teleport is terribly unsafe: 41-frame startup and 41-frame recovery. There have been matches against Scorpion in which I have successfully hit with a lightning bolt from full screen, then immediately tried to teleport, and have been caught by Scorpion's spear toss (which means he had had time to recover from the hit, perform the spear and hit me, all of that during the recovery of my lightning bolt and the startup of my teleport). The slowest teleport Raiden has ever had.

I have the feeling once people really get to know Raiden's weaknesses, he will start to be less hated.

[Cpt Obvious]

Originally posted by micaelian:

As a Raiden main, I agree his damage output is VERY high, but take that from him and he becomes bottom tier. His strings are rather linear and offer no relevant mix-ups; his mids, although long-reaching, are pretty slow (his fastest being 15 frames); and he has no real overhead-starting kombo (b2 ends in a knockdown, and f34 starts with a slowish high that can be insta-punished with a simple d1).

All of this, in my opinion, makes him a very basic and easy to learn character, but his toolset is so limited that he gets boring quite soon, as you are practically forced to repeat the same moves again and again, having to rely heavily on interrupting your strings to throw in the occasional b2 or throw against experienced players that will always block your very readable starters. Thus, almost all Raiden players have the exact same game plan.

Also, his teleport is terribly unsafe: 41-frame startup and 41-frame recovery. There have been matches against Scorpion in which I have successfully hit with a lightning bolt from full screen, then immediately tried to teleport, and have been caught by Scorpion's spear toss (which means he had had time to recover from the hit, perform the spear and hit me, all of that during the recovery of my lightning bolt and the startup of my teleport). The slowest teleport Raiden has ever had.

I have the feeling once people really get to know Raiden's weaknesses, he will start to be less hated.

Brah that's like 80% of the rest of the cast. They are Raiden's with no damage. Most of them even have worse mix uo than Raiden too.

[micaelian]

Originally posted by Cpt Obvious:

Brah that's like 80% of the rest of the cast. They are Raiden's with no damage. Most of them even have worse mix uo than Raiden too.

I disagree.

Baraka, General Shao, Smoke and Sub-Zero have BOTH overhead- and low-starting kombos; Geras, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Mileena, Reiko and Sub-Zero (again!) all have strings that start the same and end in overhead/low/command grab mixups; Liu Kang, Shang Tsung and Sindel all have damaging projectiles that enhance their zoning-focused playstyle and tools to punish you heavily if you approach them too much (like Liu Kang's long-reaching, 11-frame fast and damaging mids).

The point is, no character can have everything: Mileena lacks real low-starting kombos, but her damage output is immense; Ashrah has almost no mixups to speak of, but she receives a very powerful projectile (especially when enhanced) and a disengaged hurtbox (like Kenshi and Baraka).

Take damage from Raiden, and what is he really left with?

[Cpt Obvious]

Originally posted by micaelian:

Originally posted by Cpt Obvious:

Brah that's like 80% of the rest of the cast. They are Raiden's with no damage. Most of them even have worse mix uo than Raiden too.

I disagree.

Baraka, General Shao, Smoke and Sub-Zero have BOTH overhead- and low-starting kombos; Geras, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Mileena, Reiko and Sub-Zero (again!) all have strings that start the same and end in overhead/low/command grab mixups; Liu Kang, Shang Tsung and Sindel all have damaging projectiles that enhance their zoning-focused playstyle and tools to punish you heavily if you approach them too much (like Liu Kang's long-reaching, 11-frame fast and damaging mids).

The point is, no character can have everything: Mileena lacks real low-starting kombos, but her damage output is immense; Ashrah has almost no mixups to speak of, but she receives a very powerful projectile (especially when enhanced) and a disengaged hurtbox (like Kenshi and Baraka).

Take damage from Raiden, and what is he really left with?

Brah I suggest you play any of the characters excluding Johnny and Baraka in kombat league with you perceived advantages and see how far you get. There is a reason 90% of people in KL playing the same 3-4 chars and every professional player has they same 4 characters in the top tier which includes Raiden.

[Kolumbo]

Originally posted by Cpt Obvious:

Originally posted by micaelian:

I disagree.

Baraka, General Shao, Smoke and Sub-Zero have BOTH overhead- and low-starting kombos; Geras, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Mileena, Reiko and Sub-Zero (again!) all have strings that start the same and end in overhead/low/command grab mixups; Liu Kang, Shang Tsung and Sindel all have damaging projectiles that enhance their zoning-focused playstyle and tools to punish you heavily if you approach them too much (like Liu Kang's long-reaching, 11-frame fast and damaging mids).

The point is, no character can have everything: Mileena lacks real low-starting kombos, but her damage output is immense; Ashrah has almost no mixups to speak of, but she receives a very powerful projectile (especially when enhanced) and a disengaged hurtbox (like Kenshi and Baraka).

Take damage from Raiden, and what is he really left with?

Brah I suggest you play any of the characters excluding Johnny and Baraka in kombat league with you perceived advantages and see how far you get. There is a reason 90% of people in KL playing the same 3-4 chars and every professional player has they same 4 characters in the top tier which includes Raiden.

If you actually look at the KL leaderboards, especially at higher ranks, you will see that there is nothing *close* to 90% dominance for 3-4 characters.

[micaelian]

Originally posted by Kolumbo:

If you actually look at the KL leaderboards, especially at higher ranks, you will see that there is nothing *close* to 90% dominance for 3-4 characters.

Raiden is good in this game, I don't deny it. He offers great reward in exchange for little effort, but I don't regard him as blatantly overpowered, nor I think the rest of the roster is weak by any means; even those we could arguably consider the bottom-tier fighters (whom I won't name for various reasons) are more than capable of holding their own.

I'm all for those weaker characters being given a boost, but damage is not all there is. Some of them would benefit greatly from other things too... Frame advantage, extra reach, projectiles being turned from high to mid when enhanced... And raw damage, of course.

[Kolumbo]

Originally posted by micaelian:

Originally posted by Kolumbo:

If you actually look at the KL leaderboards, especially at higher ranks, you will see that there is nothing *close* to 90% dominance for 3-4 characters.

Raiden is good in this game, I don't deny it. He offers great reward in exchange for little effort, but I don't regard him as blatantly overpowered, nor I think the rest of the roster is weak by any means; even those we could arguably consider the bottom-tier fighters (whom I won't name for various reasons) are more than capable of holding their own.

I'm all for those weaker characters being given a boost, but damage is not all there is. Some of them would benefit greatly from other things too... Frame advantage, extra reach, projectiles being turned from high to mid when enhanced... And raw damage, of course.

Totally agree. And I wouldn't be shocked (hah) if Raiden gets patched with a bit more damage scaling on some of his easy combo extenders. But yeah, he's hardly unstoppable or broken. Recently I've beaten a couple Raidens, while still losing horribly to some others, and I'm starting to understand him better and see the difference between people who just know a couple annoying tricks (and are easily beaten once you see that) and people who actually use him really well - the latter can definitely be a huge challenge, but they earned it.

[Zer0]

I sincerely hope Raiden gets nerfed to the ever loving ground, his easy as piss combos should not be doing 50% of my hp, if I wanted to spend most of my time getting juggled with his 2 touch ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I'd be as well putting a movie on.

Lame as ♥♥♥♥ playing against.

[Grim_Hyper]

You guys asking for nerfs
1. Its the first month of the game, should buff the bad characters before nerfing anyone, no matter what there's always gonna be a top 5 and people are just going to move on to the next character to play and dominate you on and for people to cry about.
2. You're delusional if you think Raiden needs a nerf, dude has no over-heads besides the cartwheel which is slow and react-able and mediocre zoning. Take his damage away and what else has he got?
3. Have you even seen Johnny, Smoke, Mileena, Baraka, Geras, or any character besides Sub-Zero? They can all get in the 40% range for damage but some offer way more mix-up potential, better zoning, or even more damage.
4. What people also don't seem to realise is that these characters aren't broken in themselves but what the kameo they're using offers and it seems like Cyrax is a huge reason people hate the top tier characters.