Why does it feel like literally everyone is masters with frame data?

[I'm him]

It's a brand new game, it should have new players, yet it feels like every single player I play against online knows EXACTLY what moves to use at the absolute best times. Low jabbing is the biggest instance of this, as it feels like literally every single person I play against knows how to low jab and counter low jab perfectly. I can't even learn from it because it feels like there is nothing to learn, I just keep getting crouch poked 1 frame quicker than I can attack. Don't even get me started on if we BOTH crouch poke at the same exact time, hit each other, then we do it AGAIN and the OTHER person ALWAYS gets the poke instead of me. How is this possible? We are doing the move at the same exact time.

Does anyone have any good tutorials for learning this process and getting better with the frame data? It feels like no matter what, I'm not getting better at combating people who do this, and I'm not getting better at doing it myself.

[Muna]

Originally posted by Yerrrt:

It's a brand new game, it should have new players, yet it feels like every single player I play against online knows EXACTLY what moves to use at the absolute best times. Low jabbing is the biggest instance of this, as it feels like literally every single person I play against knows how to low jab and counter low jab perfectly. I can't even learn from it because it feels like there is nothing to learn, I just keep getting crouch poked 1 frame quicker than I can attack. Don't even get me started on if we BOTH crouch poke at the same exact time, hit each other, then we do it AGAIN and the OTHER person ALWAYS gets the poke instead of me. How is this possible? We are doing the move at the same exact time.

Does anyone have any good tutorials for learning this process and getting better with the frame data? It feels like no matter what, I'm not getting better at combating people who do this, and I'm not getting better at doing it myself.

game plays almost like 11. Lab a combo go online, and punish your opponent with it. Damage can hit 40% here so it hurts lmao

[Cheezie]

Fighting games have been around for almost 50 years now. SF6 I had no problem coming out the gate SWINGING on people with E. Honda cause the mechanics are basically the same as SF4/5 with very little variation(I couldn't even do amazing combos like others it was all fundamental understanding). MK1 most of the mechanics aside from kameo and wake-up armor implementation are the same as MK11.

Fighting games are a niche genre compared to most. It is VERY common to run into people that already have a grasp on the core structure of these games no matter which one it is because they like all fighting games and love the 1v1 format.

Hell I only consider myself a mid to decently high-ish level FG player and I still struggle on some opponents cause they break me down to a science it feels like. lol Fighting games are some of the most skill based games around...some games I feel like I'm picking on a child and others I feel like I'm the child. It is the nature of these games...You have to know your character inside and out while knowing their character and adapting to how they play using what you know.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and PRACTICE. You should always be trying to learn something from a game whether you win or lose to improve.

[I'm him]

Originally posted by Cheezelog:

Fighting games have been around for almost 50 years now. SF6 I had no problem coming out the gate SWINGING on people with E. Honda cause the mechanics are basically the same as SF4/5 with very little variation(I couldn't even do amazing combos like others it was all fundamental understanding). MK1 most of the mechanics aside from kameo and wake-up armor implementation are the same as MK11.

Fighting games are a niche genre compared to most. It is VERY common to run into people that already have a grasp on the core structure of these games no matter which one it is because they like all fighting games and love the 1v1 format.

Hell I only consider myself a mid to decently high-ish level FG player and I still struggle on some opponents cause they break me down to a science it feels like. lol Fighting games are some of the most skill based games around...some games I feel like I'm picking on a child and others I feel like I'm the child. It is the nature of these games...You have to know your character inside and out while knowing their character and adapting to how they play using what you know.

Well I'm mostly trying to adapt to getting low punched when I'm up close and I'm just not getting it currently. Tried some stuff in practice but it's mostly just what I pick up from others, like how low jabbing into a throw will land a good bit of the time. Most people are just REALLY good at using it in a situation that it's pretty much guaranteed in. I know 40% combos and stuff but it's so hard setting up for them, and I see people use this a lot for setups, but man they are good with it in pubs.

[Scrub McGrub]

Welcome to online MK.... down 1 or "low jab" will always be a thing. They're not masters of frame data... they're just mashing a button that historically interrupts things.

So rather than pressing a button... block the down 1, then do something. Most likely be ready to break a throw because that's coming after the down 1 most times....

[Muna]

Originally posted by Scrub McGrub:

Welcome to online MK.... down 1 or "low jab" will always be a thing. They're not masters of frame data... they're just mashing a button that historically interrupts things.

So rather than pressing a button... block the down 1, then do something. Most likely be ready to break a throw because that's coming after the down 1 most times....

I miss MK11. Jab grab is a 40% punish waiting to happen

[preacher_]

Originally posted by Yerrrt:

It's a brand new game, it should have new players, yet it feels like every single player I play against online knows EXACTLY what moves to use at the absolute best times. Low jabbing is the biggest instance of this, as it feels like literally every single person I play against knows how to low jab and counter low jab perfectly. I can't even learn from it because it feels like there is nothing to learn, I just keep getting crouch poked 1 frame quicker than I can attack. Don't even get me started on if we BOTH crouch poke at the same exact time, hit each other, then we do it AGAIN and the OTHER person ALWAYS gets the poke instead of me. How is this possible? We are doing the move at the same exact time.

Does anyone have any good tutorials for learning this process and getting better with the frame data? It feels like no matter what, I'm not getting better at combating people who do this, and I'm not getting better at doing it myself.

Guide how to deal with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQvsL1CmWlo

[Juri's_feet_tho]

Low jab in MK1 is nowhere near as bad as it is in SF6 and MKX forget it lol

[Star Rain]

Yeah nutpunch is godlike in any fighter, Tekken, VF, etc. you name it!

[Cheezie]

Originally posted by (0_0) Is_that_Frost?!?:

Low jab in MK1 is nowhere near as bad as it is in SF6 and MKX forget it lol

Oh I love low jab combo starters in SF6. That ♥♥♥♥ is such ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. lol

[MetalMamacomon]

And they wont drop a single combo, always know the time to commit to a combo, and after win the air to air, guess what, they wont miss the combo after it too, I feel like theyre using something to do it. Ive played matches with ppl very low on ranked league and they wont miss ONE SINGLE confirm.

[Shoah Kahn]

Originally posted by (0_0) Is_that_Frost?!?:

Low jab in MK1 is nowhere near as bad as it is in SF6 and MKX forget it lol

SF6, maybe... Largely, because they can be mashed and easily comboed into. However, low jabs could be powered through in MKX, using EX moves, and weren't anywhere near as obnoxious in MK11 and, now, MK1.

In MK1, low jabs are already the hallmark "meta" of the game, and for the most lamest, nonsensical attack (try to crouch then jab someone in the shins, and see what you can "interrupt" of their on-coming attack 👌😏) conceived for any fighting game, not just MK, is sheer nausea to witness.

I've never understood why EVER character in fighting games needs to ape EVER move... In MKX, Jason had a sweep using his arm -- why cannot characters be designed to have abilities which make some logical sense in the context of their fighting style? Seeing Man: ON crouch jab in SF6, is the most awkward-looking thing I've seen in any fighting game... Even more so than said Jason's low sweeps 😫

[QUAKETALLICA]

Originally posted by Yerrrt:

It's a brand new game, it should have new players, yet it feels like every single player I play against online knows EXACTLY what moves to use at the absolute best times. Low jabbing is the biggest instance of this, as it feels like literally every single person I play against knows how to low jab and counter low jab perfectly. I can't even learn from it because it feels like there is nothing to learn, I just keep getting crouch poked 1 frame quicker than I can attack. Don't even get me started on if we BOTH crouch poke at the same exact time, hit each other, then we do it AGAIN and the OTHER person ALWAYS gets the poke instead of me. How is this possible? We are doing the move at the same exact time.

Does anyone have any good tutorials for learning this process and getting better with the frame data? It feels like no matter what, I'm not getting better at combating people who do this, and I'm not getting better at doing it myself.

Because the people who have such little patience or too much extra money to buy the game on day one at full price $70 (more than full price really, since that was $60) for just the base game (because the inevitable DLC characters are yet to release) are going to be hardcore MK fans not casuals.

Heck, just generally the people who you go against online are always the hardcore fighting game enthusiasts. Most casual players stick to story mode and a.i. ladders. Precisely because they'd get destroyed online. It is circular logic, but it is what it is.

[QUAKETALLICA]

Originally posted by Cheezelog:

Fighting games have been around for almost 50 years now.

Can you do math? Lol

I think you mean 30 years. It's been roughly 30 years since the original Mortal Kombat (aka the real MK 1) and Street Fighter 2 came out.

[Cheezie]

Originally posted by QUAKETALLICA:

Originally posted by Cheezelog:

Fighting games have been around for almost 50 years now.

Can you do math? Lol

I think you mean 30 years. It's been roughly 30 years since the original Mortal Kombat (aka the real MK 1) and Street Fighter 2 came out.

FIGHTING GAMES. Clue is in the word. Karate Champ was made in 1984 and is considered the first video game fighting game ever. Rock em sock em robots is technically a 1v1 fighting game even tho not a video game and has existed for longer. The fighting genre didn't start with MK or SF...a quick google search could have avoided this...

They popularized it like no other before them but they did NOT start it. Hope you learned something today.

[QUAKETALLICA]

Originally posted by Cheezelog:

Originally posted by QUAKETALLICA:

Can you do math? Lol

I think you mean 30 years. It's been roughly 30 years since the original Mortal Kombat (aka the real MK 1) and Street Fighter 2 came out.

FIGHTING GAMES. Clue is in the word. Karate Champ was made in 1984 and is considered the first video game fighting game ever. Rock em sock em robots is technically a 1v1 fighting game even tho not a video game and has existed for longer. The fighting genre didn't start with MK or SF...a quick google search could have avoided this...

Yeah that's too vague of a definition. The fighting VIDEO game genre (since apparently you count real life toys) didn't really take off until SF 2 and MK 1 in the early 90s.

That's like arguing, "Well technically Doom or Wolfenstein 3D wasn't the first FPS." yeah but it's the first that really mattered.