Will same-sex romance options be available?

[lupin]

Saw this game would have romance, so I was wondering if it was limited to M/F or if same-sex pairings will be possible. Thanks!

[Studio Daimon]

Hello! There will be a wlw pairing too. Thanks for asking!

[lupin]

Thanks!

[Lari]

Originally posted by Studio Daimon:

Hello! There will be a wlw pairing too. Thanks for asking!

So no m/m?

[Cat]

I'm curious about the wording of "a w|w pairing", given you seem to play 3 different characters, does that mean only one of them can pair up with another woman? If so which one? And just how central to the game is that stuff anyway? Probably going to get some flak for saying so, but I'd rather avoid heterosexual pairings if I can, I'm not opposed to it but being forced to endure it isn't exactly something I enjoy either. If it's optional then that's fine.

I'm also curious about the existence of male pairings too.

[O-Ren Ishii]

Originally posted by Sunricer:

I'm curious about the wording of "a w|w pairing", given you seem to play 3 different characters, does that mean only one of them can pair up with another woman? If so which one? And just how central to the game is that stuff anyway? Probably going to get some flak for saying so, but I'd rather avoid heterosexual pairings if I can, I'm not opposed to it but being forced to endure it isn't exactly something I enjoy either. If it's optional then that's fine.

I'm also curious about the existence of male pairings too.

+1

[RotsNai]

Originally posted by Sunricer:

I'm curious about the wording of "a w|w pairing", given you seem to play 3 different characters, does that mean only one of them can pair up with another woman? If so which one? And just how central to the game is that stuff anyway? Probably going to get some flak for saying so, but I'd rather avoid heterosexual pairings if I can, I'm not opposed to it but being forced to endure it isn't exactly something I enjoy either. If it's optional then that's fine.

I'm also curious about the existence of male pairings too.

+1
I would also like to know if there's m/m pairings

[Studio Daimon]

Hello everyone, thank you for your questions! And sorry if my previous post was confusing! I didn't mention m/m pairings because, in fact, those aren't included in the game. I apologize if someone was looking forward to experiencing that kind of romance in the game, but I didn't want to force it and risk making it feel unnatural just for the sake of marketing. The w/w pairing is included because it makes sense in the context of the story and its characters.

As for your other question, while romance is indeed a part of this game, it also isn't its main selling point, as this isn't a Dating Simulator. Moreover, the heterosexual romantic relationships in the game are entirely skippable.

Should you have any complaints or suggestions about the game's relationship after playing it, I would be happy to hear them!

Thanks, and have a great day!
- Alfred

[Cat]

While it's a shame to hear that male pairings aren't in it, knowing the heterosexual ones are skippable is enough to tip me towards buying the game. It looked interesting enough as it is, but I was curious about this in particular. Thanks for the answer.

[Roaringtigerss]

Originally posted by Studio Daimon:

Hello everyone, thank you for your questions! And sorry if my previous post was confusing! I didn't mention m/m pairings because, in fact, those aren't included in the game. I apologize if someone was looking forward to experiencing that kind of romance in the game, but I didn't want to force it and risk making it feel unnatural just for the sake of marketing. The w/w pairing is included because it makes sense in the context of the story and its characters.

As for your other question, while romance is indeed a part of this game, it also isn't its main selling point, as this isn't a Dating Simulator. Moreover, the heterosexual romantic relationships in the game are entirely skippable.

Should you have any complaints or suggestions about the game's relationship after playing it, I would be happy to hear them!

Thanks, and have a great day!
- Alfred

I was wondering is it possible to pair Faratras romantically with Shiro(blind girl) or is Rya(the princess) are the only w/w options?

[Terra_Finale]

Originally posted by Studio Daimon:

Hello everyone, thank you for your questions! And sorry if my previous post was confusing! I didn't mention m/m pairings because, in fact, those aren't included in the game. I apologize if someone was looking forward to experiencing that kind of romance in the game, but I didn't want to force it and risk making it feel unnatural just for the sake of marketing. The w/w pairing is included because it makes sense in the context of the story and its characters.

I feel like "the sake of marketing" isn't the right way to think about this. I think the thing in question is inclusion, not marketing.

Try to think of the mlm people who were drawn to the game's promise of being able to "Find your soulmate, follow your own path!" and "find self-acceptance" (per the game's Steam store page), and then being met with a response like this. It's not the best feeling.

As a gay man myself, it really doesn't feel great to hear that romance that represents me needs to somehow be justified in a way that hetero and wlw romances didn't have any problem doing. As if it's not enough for them to just be, like the relationships Suzaku builds with Cristoph and (to a lesser extent) Hellios aren't enough. In reality, they were enough to me and being able to initiate a romance wouldnt have felt "unnatural" from my perspective at all.

I can't help but feel that the supposed risk of them feeling "forced" or "unnatural" (which is a justification I hear incredibly often) was born more out of a subconscious desire to avoid offending homophobes than to provide rep meaningful to mlm players.

Probably should have said this off the bat, but I don't think the devs made the choice out of malice (reference: intended) or anything. It's just that, and I know I'm probably opening myself up to a lot of hate for this, the way in which my identity is portrayed on screen and handled off-screen is very important to me, and I can't help but advocate for better. I still like the game, and I plan on leaving it a positive review, but there are some things that I would love to see rethought. mlm romance chief among them. I hope this doesn't come off as accusatory or self-entitled. ❤

Terra

[Cat]

The way the game seems to handle the lesbian romance so far that I've played, assuming my gaydar isn't faulty, there would have been room to handle it in a similar way for including a gay male romance hook, I've seen dialogue where you get several options that steer the inner thoughts of the characters one way or the other (like making the male lead think of one of the female leads as a friend rather than romantically), but I'm not here to tell the dev what to do. I've seen another game that also struggled with including gay romance options (of both kinds) from a perhaps misguided effort to "do it right" as if you need an entirely different mindset to write these types of things.

Male|Male content is probably one of the more neglected aspects of inclusion out there since it's seemingly a lot easier to write lesbian romance for some reason? I'm not really trying to be mean saying that but I feel as if whenever the topic of non heterosexual romances go, a lot of the time it's shoved aside with reasoning that seems a bit more like they can't be bothered. But making lesbians is easy enough despite it being gay as well.

The game is not a dating simulator however, having played up to chapter 8 out of who knows how many chapters, I've seen some hints of the female|female romance stuff, but it doesn't strike me as any kind of special writing was needed to make it, so I don't really get why the other half of the gay coin so to speak was not included.
The game is good and I'm enjoying my time with it, but this topic in particular is one that I'm invested in. I guess I wanted to add my thoughts as while I'm pleased I get what I wanted (lesbian romance and the option to avoid heterosexual ones), I do feel bad for gay men being told they aren't marketable enough to bother including. (This is not a statement on what the dev said, just a general thing I've seen before)

[Grakor]

Originally posted by Sunricer:

Male|Male content is probably one of the more neglected aspects of inclusion out there since it's seemingly a lot easier to write lesbian romance for some reason?

This has definitely been a common trend in gaming as early as the early 2000's. I think it has less to do with what's easier to write, and far more to do with the demographics of writers and the average gamer. Lesbians are far more appealing to the average straight guy, and you get the added bonus of claiming you're progressive and inclusive by throwing them in.

Not to say that's the case here. I don't know the devs and I haven't played the game. I just know that we gay guys have always gotten the short end of the stick in the romance department in RPGs. Nothing, or the same tired archetypes when we do get something. I certainly can't lay that on the feet of one developer, and I'm not an advocate for inclusion in every game, story be damned. But it's definitely noticeable.

[Studio Daimon]

Originally posted by Terra_Finale:

Originally posted by Studio Daimon:

Hello everyone, thank you for your questions! And sorry if my previous post was confusing! I didn't mention m/m pairings because, in fact, those aren't included in the game. I apologize if someone was looking forward to experiencing that kind of romance in the game, but I didn't want to force it and risk making it feel unnatural just for the sake of marketing. The w/w pairing is included because it makes sense in the context of the story and its characters.

I feel like "the sake of marketing" isn't the right way to think about this. I think the thing in question is inclusion, not marketing.

Try to think of the mlm people who were drawn to the game's promise of being able to "Find your soulmate, follow your own path!" and "find self-acceptance" (per the game's Steam store page), and then being met with a response like this. It's not the best feeling.

As a gay man myself, it really doesn't feel great to hear that romance that represents me needs to somehow be justified in a way that hetero and wlw romances didn't have any problem doing. As if it's not enough for them to just be, like the relationships Suzaku builds with Cristoph and (to a lesser extent) Hellios aren't enough. In reality, they were enough to me and being able to initiate a romance wouldnt have felt "unnatural" from my perspective at all.

I can't help but feel that the supposed risk of them feeling "forced" or "unnatural" (which is a justification I hear incredibly often) was born more out of a subconscious desire to avoid offending homophobes than to provide rep meaningful to mlm players.

Probably should have said this off the bat, but I don't think the devs made the choice out of malice (reference: intended) or anything. It's just that, and I know I'm probably opening myself up to a lot of hate for this, the way in which my identity is portrayed on screen and handled off-screen is very important to me, and I can't help but advocate for better. I still like the game, and I plan on leaving it a positive review, but there are some things that I would love to see rethought. mlm romance chief among them. I hope this doesn't come off as accusatory or self-entitled. ❤

Terra

Hi Terra,
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this message. I am very happy that you like the game and want it to be more inclusive and enjoyable for people of all orientations.

First of all, I apologize once again for the confusion - I didn't mean to say that mlm romances should be included only if they're marketable enough. This would be a very disgusting claim and it's far from how I feel.
I believe I should explain myself better - you see, maybe it all starts from a naive assumption, but I consider games with gay romances to be extremely popular nowadays (maybe due to their scarcity too, unfortunately). And games with both hetero and gay relationships can work well too if all romances are skippable and people of different orientations aren't forced to see stuff they aren't comfortable with.
Going by this logic, I feel like not including a mlm pairing has actually hurt sales of the game and, more importantly, has made the game less inclusive (which is a big problem because I just want everyone to enjoy this game and feel represented if possible. My goal as a game designer is to touch the hearts of as many people as possible).

The main reason that hasn't happened (yet) is because I am not confident in my ability to write a decent mlm romance, as of now. I sincerely apologize, this is totally on me. You may say "yes, but why is wlw included then?", and the answer would be: because I've written those kinds of romances for a long time, I have an easier time identifying as a woman than a gay male and I've been blessed with the presence of lesbians who gave me sensitive feedback on that particular pairing.
I directed, wrote and programmed Path of the Midnight Sun by myself and unfortunately I didn't have the time or resources to give this topic the attention it deserves. I hope you understand that this isn't just some "corporate talk" to save face but my honest feelings.

Going forward, now that I have more time and resources, I would like to update the game with more content. I will try my best to research this topic until I'm confident I can write a good mlm romance, or I will hire someone to write those parts if I won't be satisfied in my own abilities.

I have to say, though, that the fact that you said Suzaku x Cristoph would have seemed quite natural to you is a great compliment that makes me very happy.

And as I said in my previous post, "Should you have any complaints or suggestions about the game's relationships after playing it, I would be happy to hear them!"

It might take a while but I hope you're looking forward to the next updates. Thank you for your feedback.
-Alfred

[FlyingHusky]

Originally posted by Studio Daimon:

Going forward, now that I have more time and resources, I would like to update the game with more content. I will try my best to research this topic until I'm confident I can write a good mlm romance, or I will hire someone to write those parts if I won't be satisfied in my own abilities.

I have to say, though, that the fact that you said Suzaku x Cristoph would have seemed quite natural to you is a great compliment that makes me very happy.

And as I said in my previous post, "Should you have any complaints or suggestions about the game's relationships after playing it, I would be happy to hear them!"

It might take a while but I hope you're looking forward to the next updates. Thank you for your feedback.
-Alfred

Awesome! Looking forward to those future updates! Hopefully, we'll get an mlm romance within the year (or someday). Thank you so much for the hard work!

[Hato]

Hey Alfred. Just want you to know I am perfectly contend with the current romance options. Great work for creating such cute girls in game! Shiori is the best!