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stay demoralized, friend.
I want to be clear here: I support right to repair and I support ownership of what you buy. I work in tech, I know how this all works.
Just because I support these things doesn't mean that I have to oppose every single little tiny thing that has DRM. It's not about demoralization, it's about being realistic.
You think Denuvo keeps people from owning games alone? What about Steam DRM? Why are you buying games with Steam DRM, but not ones with Denuvo? If you truly believe Ghost Trick using a form of Denuvo that at maximum makes you check in once every few months for ownership is bad, then you must really hate Steam DRM, which locks your game to your account entirely.
But oh no, Denuvo is the "bad DRM" and Steam is the "good DRM", right? We gotta just throw out buzzwords and parrot what people said in 2016.
Let me be 100% with you here: You weren't gonna buy the game, Denuvo or not. You're only here to berate people who bought the game because "denuvo bad". Wow, such a moral high ground. Do you also not buy water? That's owned by Coca Cola, Pepsi, and even Nestle. Y'know, Nestle, the people who believe water isn't a human right. You couldn't possibly be buying absolutely anything from Nestle[www.nestle.com], right? Nah, you're clearly a person who has absolute moral high ground, you would never[www.industryleadersmagazine.com] buy[theorg.com] anything[en.wikipedia.org] made[en.wikipedia.org] by[myanimelist.net] corporations[en.wikipedia.org] that[www.walmart.com] take[www.chick-fil-a.com] away[www.mcdonalds.com] our[www.coca-colacompany.com] human[en.wikipedia.org] rights[www.smbcompass.com]. Just abstaining from it completely, right?
But yeah, "denuvo bad".
I normally try to stay out of these types of discussions because interacting with people like you is a waste of my time, considering you can't handle people's reasoning for people hating denuvo, but sure I'll bite.
To point out first. Make sure you know the difference between Steam itself and a function of STEAMWORKS. Steam itself is not a DRM, we know this because there are games on steam that are DRM free and have been tested. I have also tested some of these games and others. But I'm sure you already knew that, right? Considering how often you're running your mouth. Surely. I highly doubt it tbh.
Also bringing up the example of water, when there are plenty of water companies. In fact there is a company right now trying to give free water. Maybe instead of trying to mention ♥♥♥♥♥♥ companies like Coca-cola, Nestle, and Pepsi you can instead mention them? https://www.freewater.io/ btw, I buy nothing from neither of those companies since I tend to back up what I say but that's neither here nor there. I'm sure you only mentioned them since all you tried to do was go for a gotcha moment instead. That's all people like you do, after all. Nothing of value.
At the end of the day, I'm not going to mention the rest since they're also companies I tend to reject so it's whatever. However, I will say that this weird culture shift of constantly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on people for wanting to own what they purchase is insane. I see people like you constantly attacking others for hating subscription services. I see people like you attacking others for wanting to repair their products. I see people like you attacking consumers for getting upset about phones not having headphone jacks anymore. I see people like you attacking others for not trusting amazon products and just wanting to host their services locally instead. Because surely it's fine for them to shut off a consumer's product because some employee heard what they thought was a bad word, yeah? I'm sure you heard that story. Maybe. Don't think, consume. You will own nothing and you will be happy.
Oh, ♥♥♥♥ "Meta" btw.
and then
lmao
Copy Protection in the 90s was even worse, and it was a huge inconvenience. DRM has always been bad.
Yeah because people blatantly don't know how to read. They assume that as long as the thread isn't just saying "denuvo bad" with a round of applause, it's somehow "shilling for Denuvo".
Like bro it's simple - Denuvo is bad but y'all are making up garbage about it and flooding the forums. They're literally just copying / pasting garbage from other forums without context, and it really shows.
It's more that these types of threads serve no purpose, and my entire point is that attacking consumers is completely and utterly stupid. If people want to post threads that denuvo is bad, that's a good thing. Just like how people posting about threads about those other topics is a good thing. The whole thing of "DOING IT HERE IS NOT GOOD" is the clowniest argument, and shows you have nothing to say. So yes, I'm going to snap. Since as much as people like hayate here think it's a waste of time to raise your voice on whatever platform you can, I'm going to say that attacking consumers for raising their voice is a even bigger waste of time. And shows a bad precedent. It doesn't matter what you try to say afterwards in a attempt to shield yourself from criticism, you're still an idiot. Glad to know neither you or "Hayate" there have no counter argument though.
With that said, I did bring up the rest of that stuff because the moron decided to bring up stuff like water and everything else, so my reaction was "OH BOY HERE WE GO".
That and the claim that people are "making up things" about denuvo. It's been proven that denuvo has brought in performance issues. People have played betas, or demos, for some games, only for them to suddenly release with this ♥♥♥♥♥♥ piece of software. Then suddenly, the game runs worse. Worse than a beta. Yeah, sure. That works.
And yes, people will call it a virus. Lots of things behave like viruses. ♥♥♥♥ like EAC accessing kernal level is virus behavior. When people buy a product they don't want ♥♥♥♥ repeatedly phoning home to make sure you didn't somehow steal the game as a paying consumer. You know... phoning home. Virus behavior. Man, crazy. Anyway.
Good to know I was wasting my time again. Deuces.
I'm not attacking consumers, I'm attacking people that blatantly weren't gonna buy in the first place and are using Denuvo as an excuse.
Yes you are all making stuff up. Not all Denuvo is created equal. You guys reference Denuvo from 2016 and pretend it's the same as today. Sorry not buying it. Yes it's proven some games run worse with Denuvo, fully 3D games with breathtaking graphics. What in the world possesses you to believe this game has that same level of graphics? I thought so.
By the way, I do have counter arguments. You guys just choose to ignore it because it's not what you want to hear. And yes I brought up water because y'all are crusading over a video game acting like you're gonna die over Denuvo, or that anyone who dares oppose your half truths is somehow "not supporting our rights as a consumer". Sorry, I don't take it lightly when you guys assume my position on the tech industry let alone any grand level of the world.
Yes lots of things run like viruses. This game doesn't. You didn't even read the OP where the game got ZERO detections from Virus Total. Or maybe the post I linked where people's performance issues on games like Sonic Mania boiled down to exclusive fullscreen on windows which got resolved while the game STILL had Denuvo. Or how this game doesn't check if you're online constantly, just once every few months. And by the way if that's virus behavior to you, you'd hate to hear about the modern invention known as a WEB BROWSER. But none of that matters because you don't like to hear it. You'd rather parrot something someone said more than half a decade ago. But go off.
Yeah I totally "don't have counter arguments" when you choose to ignore all of them. Or as your kind puts it: "that sign can't stop me because I can't read"
Virustotal isn't the be-all end-all benchmark for PUPs, let alone anything of which impacts performance, which is why in the security realm, there is the terminology known as a "PUP" (potentially unwanted program). Some programs are flagged as such for the overusage of resources on a computer, posting a large series of ads in your browser due to an unwanted extension, or other forms of "borderline" malice. So, if Virustotal doesn't manage to show up among the multitude of aggregate sources that are used, then we can mark it on the similar line of a "PUP", which can be determined as a virus or not depending on what the end result is for the overall user. For the corporation, it's doing exactly as intended: ensuring that there is a destruction of preservation on a product by validating the overall software with servers which never needed to be used for such purposes in the first place, impacting performance of the overall game to the end consumer as a consequence. For the user, however, it's ensuring that their product has a form of planned obsolescence on it, and can potentially harm the use of said product (especially for Steam Deck users who wish to switch Proton versions).
Ubisoft famously said back in 2011 that they considered all PC gamers to be pirates. If that were the case, games like The Witcher, Hades, and many others would have never succeeded on Steam. Denuvo doesn't even protect this game, because everyone with even the most basic tech-savvy knows the superior DS version exists out in the wild.
At the end of the day, I even asked Amplitude Studios and Sega to provide data that Denuvo ends out contributing to the profits of their games, with credible citations to their respective data points. They refused to provide the information, claiming that it wasn't accessible to them. In which case, they should have asked for the information in question and provided us with a reason why that basic and should-be public information is being locked behind door and key. For that alone, I can say that they know just as well as they do that they are implementing Denuvo in bad faith just as much as Capcom or anyone else are, for no data has come to light about "piracy" in the last decade with credible numbers or a strong r-squared value. Where is the regression model that ties together a significant amount of sales increased due to Denuvo's implementation?
Threads like these don't deserve to exist, because they're just made as contrarian points against people who want to play games at their most optimal, to be preserved for their longest lifespan, and for their games to not be compromised by a corporation which is running the largest of scams: fear-mongering by pressuring game corporations to think piracy is a bigger issue than it is, taking their money to offer a middleware solution which provides no protection whatsoever claiming "protection" at the expense of the end user, and insulting said end users by not trusting the end user enough to make a success out of a game despite its overall quality. I accuse the OP of posting purely in bad faith as a result.
There's a lot more information on the scam that the Irdeto Corporation is running through Denuvo on multiple places on the internet, independent of the only form of evidence I see from the side "defending" Denuvo: anecdotal in nature, and thus flawed to the core.
I dare ask "why even defend the Irdeto Corporation besides bad faith posting?", but then the rest of my points would be ignored. And that would be wrong.
This isn't about destruction of preservation of a product, you're reading way too hard into this. Capcom adds Denuvo for the same reason they didn't add GGPO to SFV; they're just a corporation who doesn't understand what these tools do and makes the decision because they're afraid of a pirate boogyman. There is absolutely no planned obsolescence, as others in this thread have even admitted Capcom removes Denuvo from their games very consistently. Hmm, almost like you know absolutely nothing about the context of this situation, and are trying to parrot something that someone said elsewhere.
This isn't Ubisoft, this is Capcom. I could quote many things Nintendo has said, or Arc Sys, but that wouldn't be relevant because Capcom is neither of those companies. In fact, I'd argue to say they don't think we're all pirates given they have a consistent track record of removing Denuvo from their games post-launch and not even including it in all of their modern games.
Yes, the most basic tech-savvy knows that there exists an original version to a remake. What an absolute headache you'd have to go through to figure out this is a remake. If you're going to emulate the DS version, you weren't buying this remake anyways, Denuvo or not. Even more tech-savvy people know this game was actually re-made in the new RE Engine, which is used for the Resident Evil Remakes and Street Fighter 6.
And again, this is Capcom, not either of those companies. You're left to assume it's bad faith in the absence of data. Want to know why they refused to provide the information? Because there is no way to provide accurate before-and-after results for Denuvo. Sega is one of the most inconsistent studios in existence, going from a masterpiece to utter garbage in terms of their games. They're known for their media looking awful, and being a gamble whether said media was fixed before release.
If you asked Capcom directly, they could provide those statistics. They could easily point to different current-generation games that don't include Denuvo, and compare prior games in franchises sales-wise. But instead, you assume bad faith because companies that don't care to run statistics and just see "increase sales by avoiding the pirate boogyman" decide to take that route.
I work in programming - I know for a fact that a majority of decisions are made by big wig business folk in suits who know absolutely nothing about the technical nuances we do. They see big flashy words and make a decision - they rarely consult developers unless they absolutely have to. Denuvo is not marketed to publishers as planned obsolescence, it's marketed as copy protection to avoid piracy. And if you think otherwise you're out of your mind.
The reason threads like these exist aren't to make a contrarian point, but instead offer to say "shut the ♥♥♥♥ up" to the other hundreds of Denuvo threads that blatantly aren't read by the company in question ever. Because guess what? People claimed Denuvo on Ghost Trick was a virus and malware. I proved them wrong with scans. They claimed Denuvo on Ghost Trick contributes to performance issues. Not a single person meeting the minimum specs reports performance issues. They claimed Denuvo required a consistent internet connection for every frame of gameplay. I demonstrated that you can literally turn off all wireless connectivity and keep playing. But that's not good enough for you people clearly.
For every one of these threads, you see hundreds of threads being spammed in discussions about Denuvo. Listen - We do not give a flying ♥♥♥♥. The store page has the yellow banner right there. We don't need to go to the discussions to know what's in it. We know what Denuvo does at a base level and at its worst. As a consumer we are well-informed by Valve on the DRM protection of its games. And Capcom - A Japanese company - does not care a single bit what goes on in these Steam Discussions. It's not an inkling of a thought in their mind because we're the Western Consumers, not their core audience. So unless you're actually sending the feedback in a channel in which they actually listen to, Denuvo threads are literally pointless. But again, context means nothing to you people - y'all just parrot everything everywhere. ♥♥♥♥ context right?
But hey, glad to see you resort to the good ol' "you don't care about consumer rights" argument you pulled there. You forgot to read the part where I do support games playing at their most optimal, preserved for their longest lifespan, and to not be compromised by a corporation running a scam. Just because I'm saying Capcom's usage of Denuvo for this particular game is not as egregious as other games does not mean I somehow don't support these things. But again, go off and strawman me more. It makes you look funnier, and discredits your ability to properly read something.
Except I'm not defending Denuvo nor Irdeto. And if you took 5 seconds to even read this post you can clearly see that. But again, go off.
Again, go off. Strawman me more. Show you can't read basic text. It makes this funnier for me.
Your condescension is equally boring as it is unnecessary. But, I'll just take down your points in a few swift sentences, considering I am now on a mobile device.
-Humans determine the factors of which make a PUP. Even if a corporate entity does not wish to recognize it as such, it falls under the basic definition of a PUP, or arguably in the case of the end user, malware due to providing no end solution (and even a detriment in performance) to the user. You can scan a file through virustotal all you want, but if it causes an issue for the end user, then there's no better set of definers, especially since Denuvo is made in organized malintent. I would know: I read the Irdeto Corporation's populist statements on how much they despise the concept of games preservation. You'd be surprised at how poorly written they are.
-So long as a game is attached to Denuvo, the game has to make checks back with Denuvo's servers. What happens if those servers go down? It doesn't take a genius mind to figure out cause and effect. Even with taking off all wireless connection: how long will your game last before Denuvo has to make a check in back to home base?
-The examples of other companies is used to make the point that this mentality is prevalent, and to argue against the points of using Denuvo at all. You seem very assured that you can gather these data points from Capcom I so desperately crave. In which case, would you be as kind as to get them for the rest of the thread to see? Clearly you do have a connection with Capcom if you are boldly claiming Capcom is so different. I believe it would be poignant, considering a basic scan of a program through virustotal is highly insubstantial and weak for reasoning of convincing the rest of us to stop posting about Denuvo.
Though, to give you the benefit of the doubt, you claimed such data may not exist either. If that's the case, then Capcom's investment into Denuvo is a waste of money going towards a company operating a snake oil scam.
-Anti-Denuvo threads have informed more people than you would think, silent or otherwise. They do have a place on the forums, for they are morally righteous. Silence is acceptance, and telling us to stop is foolish at best, a series of ill-informed wishes at worst. If you want us to stop, give us a direct line to the executives involved and have them reply in kind, without a PR filter. Considering asking you to do that is unreasonable, the most we can do is encourage others to stop buying product, however much we can.
-Just as much as we are to not buy a game because of Denuvo, you have just as much right to not care about our rights to speak freely against it. Capcom may refuse to listen out of sheer ignorance and their executives are less intellectually inclined than the average streetwalker, but that doesn't mean we can't be angry over their decision to be ignorant and less intellectually inclined and express that freely.
-Just because a consensus is formed does not mean that every single individual is ill informed from being able to agree on a subject matter at hand. Furthermore, did I say anything about consumer rights? No, I said that you're posting in bad faith and to rile up people out of motives that, quite honestly, I don't care to understand.
-You are telling me that "we (translation: I) do not give a flying damn". Conversely, what if, Hayatemaru, I don't care what you think on this subject matter and continue to post in the name of what I think is right? What if I speak on the behalf of everyone who considers Denuvo to be a blight when I say this and use the pronoun "we"? Then what? Are you going to keep throwing insults around and pretending that your condescension is going to convince anyone that you are righteous?
-If you care like you claim you do about the state of PC gaming, then sit in the background and divert your attention to greater things in your life. If you don't care and made this thread in bad faith, which seems obvious considering your intent is to get us to "shut the hell up", then it isn't far off from the truth that what I say isn't a strawman, but pulling back the curtain to show what kind of volatility lies in what you are trying to do.
Your ad hominems are kind of weak as well. I've no doubt your compulsions will come back to you in such a way that you'll be inclined to reply to this post, try to argue back as if you are more clever than me, throw in a series of further ad hominems, then walk away assuming that you sure got me. I can only encourage you to refrain from doing so and abandon this thread with haste.
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-cold-dead-hand-of-games-for-windows-live-has-pulled-5-capcom-games-into-the-abyss-for-600-days-and-counting/
As long as they'll not commit to make it a transparent policy and fix that stain on their record, we have no assurances that they will remove Denuvo in their next games, no assurances that they won't just add it back later either or that they'll not just do something worse... hence why some people still refuse to buy CAPCOM games. In my opinion, the incertitude is enough to make the concerns valid.
The issue you're defining is a singular check for internet performed every few months. If that's what defines a PUP to you, then certainly any web browser (Including Steam itself!) is a PUP.
I wouldn't be surprised. I work in tech. I know how poorly written big wigs in suits make things. Again, as I said, I'm not defending Irdeto nor Denuvo, yet you keep acting as if I am?
It also doesn't take a genius mind to figure out the cause and effect of certain companies. Companies like Capcom who remove Denuvo simply would remove it when Denuvo as a company goes down-under.
It doesn't take having a connection with Capcom internally to know this. It's basic information that you can find on SteamDB. Oh, and by the way, the burden of proof is on you for making the claim that Denuvo doesn't see a direct increase of sales. I won't take either side, I'll let you provide the proof to your claims.
And it might possibly be a waste of money. It doesn't stop the fact that everyone seems hell-bent on posting feedback in the one area they literally don't check.
Yeah it informed people in 2016. I could ask practically any group if they know what Denuvo is. Hell, my friend who started PC Gaming a couple of years ago knew what Denuvo was before I told them. And by the way, posting these threads is the equivalent of silence towards a Japanese company like Capcom. They. Do. Not. Read. These. Discussions.
What, you're telling me that you people lack basic search engine skills, can't possibly just pull up Capcom's website and find their direct line?
Yet I can't help but notice everyone who posts about Denuvo throws a literal baby fit when you buy the game. The opposite doesn't seem to be happening here.
You indirectly talked about consumer rights because right to own is a consumer right. I still love that you keep telling me I'm posting in bad faith, it shows you haven't actually read what I posted.
Oh I know for a fact I'm not going to convince you to see my side. You can't even comprehend what my side is, and just assume I'm "pro-Denuvo" like every other person posting about Denuvo.
Hint: Try actually reading what I posted.
Spoiler: You won't.
This is absolute word salad. My intent from this thread is pretty clear. Literally in the OP I debunk an arduous and incorrect claim from you guys, and I quite clearly vocalize throughout that you should just contact Capcom.
But no, that's not enough for you guys. You need a "villain". Someone who "posts in bad faith" and "defends Denuvo". Because you can't fathom the idea of someone who knows all this whining won't accomplish anything as long as you guys post in the ONE PLACE they don't look.
I don't care, so are yours.
You're literally telling me that me standing my ground is a "compulsion that must be stopped". I find this hilarious. You don't want me to abandon this thread for any reason besides the fact you don't want to debate someone who's difficult. It's really that simple. You're tired of the debate and are more used to idiots who just shrug it off.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but telling me to abandon my own thread when I have provided clear evidence towards my claims and you have not, is simply hilarious. How about you start providing proof for all your claims, and then we see, hm?
Take your time, I'm waiting for your "proof" that I opened this thread in bad faith. I'm waiting for your "proof" that people are incapable of doing a simple web search for "capcom contact us" and clicking the first result (which will definitely be the Capcom website).
Your argument is based on a lack of knowledge about how Steam works:
Contrary to Denuvo, Steamworks and the optional DRM it offers have no built-in expiration timer: Bar human error, a glitch or a publisher implementing their own DRM, you can stay offline indefinitely on Steam and keep enjoying your games for as long as you want. Plus, even though they do not advertise that fact, Steam also sells some DRM-free games.
That is why, associated to dozens of value-adding services, Steam is tolerated, even appreciated by hundreds of millions of users and Denuvo is not.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-offline-mode-designed-be-indefinite-valve-are-working-make-it-more-robust
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/2850173019347118262/?ctp=3#c2941371547488254932
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam