Weapon upgrades

[Kude]

I feel weapon upgrades are too expensive for basically no return. 1k gold plus the resources for an extra 1 damage, i mean sure it can upgrade the modifier as well but not all modifiers upgrade.

Toasty for example, it applies aflame debuff no numbers given so I assume the tickrate never upgrades, outside of the specific modifiers that state so like increasing its duration is the only one i've seen thus far.

The upgrade did not speed up the rate at which I killed mobs which imo is the purpose of upgrading. I havent maxed out a weapon so dont know what the numbers are like but if its 1 damage each upgrade its a waste of my time.

Assuming it upgrades to 15 damage at max a mob with 40 hp is now gonna take 3 hits instead of 4 after all that investment...woo

Of course if someone has a maxed weapon which either corrects or confirms this and can give me the numbers that would be great

[P4wn4g3]

yeah I agree. Also I guess he takes your item to upgrade for a while.

[Kude]

Originally posted by P4wn4g3:

yeah I agree. Also I guess he takes your item to upgrade for a while.

1 day

[Zebyzz]

Yes, this made literally no sense, I thought I'd be able to do at leats *a bit* more

[Cereal]

I think that the upgrades are only underwhelming on paper, but in practice that 1 damage is fairly decent considering that every weapon has it's own attack modifiers in it's move set and elemental damage mods exist.

For example, a spear-class weapon will do slightly more damage than it's listed attack. A 1 star/10 listed damage spear does 12 damage on it's first few combo hits, and a 3 star/12 listed damage spear does 15. On the last hit of their basic attack, they do 24 and 30 respectively. It might not sound like much, but you also gotta consider the elemental damage boost upgrades on the rest of your gear.

Assuming you have a +50% on an element you can easily abuse, that 1 star will be doing 18 on its first 3 attacks, and then 36 on its 4th for a total of 90. A 3 star will be hitting for 22.5 on the first three, then a 45 on it's 4th for 112.5. So that 2 damage created a gap of 22.5 damage on a +50% modifier. That gap gets even larger the higher your elemental damage % is.

[SPQRattus]

A standard sword does 10 damage per hit, raising that by 1 is a full 10% buff. I'd say that makes a difference. I haven't checked numbers on the heavies, but I'd expect a similar curve there.

Armor buffs at 5 health points per level.

[P4wn4g3]

Originally posted by Auton:

A standard sword does 10 damage per hit, raising that by 1 is a full 10% buff. I'd say that makes a difference. I haven't checked numbers on the heavies, but I'd expect a similar curve there.

Armor buffs at 5 health points per level.

These are numbers you might expect from a mod that can be rolled, not a full weapon upgrade. And the price doesn't justify this.

I mean the combat in this game isn't really rougelite. That's what people want when buying a roguelite game. The upgrades are trash, so you end up wandering through the combat without any upgrades outside of random finds. The combat doesn't really scale up either, so again not roguelite.

[Cereal]

Originally posted by P4wn4g3:

The upgrades are trash, so you end up wandering through the combat without any upgrades outside of random finds. The combat doesn't really scale up either, so again not roguelite.

The upgrades from the smithy "are" pretty meh, but I think the real star of the show when it comes to combat are the modifiers that make smithy upgrades more powerful. Even 1 point of listed damage can really boost your power in the field with a good set of modifiers.

Also, the combat "technically" does scale, with each new zone getting harder enemies and making tougher enemies from previous areas appear more often. Sure you can "finish" the game with a 1 star weapon, but those "small" upgrades from the smithy can really add up.

With the build I'm running(Ice element bonus damage, Ice dash focus with a sprinkle of Lighting on the side), I can really feel the difference between a 1 star and a 3 star. For reference, I can't one combo a bull when my swordfish was a 1 star, but getting it to 3 stars just lets me dash attack twice and tip it over without breaking a sweat. I'm assuming that once I get it to max and finish up my gear brewing, I'll be able to steamroll entire rooms just by dashing around with it.

As for the roguelite elements, what gives the game a good reason to be called a "Roguelite" is the Brewery and gear mods. You can consider the modifiers on your gear as the permanent upgrades in other games, and it lets you tailor make a build that suits your playstyle. elemental % damage(aka, "double damage is fun" the build), Dash builds, specific/"rainbow" element, ranged plate/bomb slinging, crit, knockback, Freeze CC, DoT and reflect focused builds can be made with the modifiers available. There may be more outlandish builds that work, since these are only the ones that are obvious/I've tried out.

[P4wn4g3]

The brewery sucks ass though, it's easier to just find the modifiers on a random drop. And a ton of games have modifiers like this that aren't roguelites.

[[Wahr] Eogard]

I prefer the way Moonlighter did it, you get powerful upgrade that makes the lower dungeon fast to clean to better farm them and basiclaly make it so you can clean normally the current dungon for your level. Weapon upgrades also felt like an actual upgrade from how its damage number worked. A lvl 1 weapon would be 100 let's say and the upgrade would be 150. Here it's 35 to 36 for 1000 gold. It just doesn't feels good and it's not noticable.

[P4wn4g3]

Originally posted by Wahr Eogard:

I prefer the way Moonlighter did it, you get powerful upgrade that makes the lower dungeon fast to clean to better farm them and basiclaly make it so you can clean normally the current dungon for your level. Weapon upgrades also felt like an actual upgrade from how its damage number worked. A lvl 1 weapon would be 100 let's say and the upgrade would be 150. Here it's 35 to 36 for 1000 gold. It just doesn't feels good and it's not noticable.

Yeah this is a much better way of handling a game like this. I don't think the devs were particularly decisive on what direction they wanted to take the combat, so it ended up being disappointing.

[Cereal]

Originally posted by P4wn4g3:

The brewery sucks ass though, it's easier to just find the modifiers on a random drop. And a ton of games have modifiers like this that aren't roguelites.

It sucks ass if you dont really get how to use it. Which is kinda why I wish they had a more involved tutorial for it. The Brewery turns your gear from ok-ish random drops that dont feel like they're doing anything to making you feel like a culinary hurricane once you get it.

The idea is to find a piece of gear with a really good modifier, then Brew the other slot into something that works with your playstyle. Preferably using higher tier food for better chances at higher tier modifiers. In my case, I went for a ton of % damage when stuff is frozen and electrified. Right now I've got 90% more damage on frozen and electrified enemies and I'm not even done yet(Don't trust the tooltip that says those damage upgrades don't stack. They most definitely stack). The setup I have lets me clean up most rooms in under 10 seconds, and I wouldn't be able to do so if I didn't abuse the hell out of the Brewery.

Also that +1 is just listed damage. That boost is actually bigger than that once you start swinging your weapon around. Kind of like in Monster Hunter where attacks have a higher or lower "motion/damage value" thats calculated off of your base attack power. The basic math from what I've seen is:

(Base Attack X Motion Value%) + (Base Attack X Elemental Damage%)

Spears and Swords get a +2 to +3 damage per point of listed damage for their combos, and Hammers and Great Knives get +3 to +6. I think the devs were trying to avoid the ridiculously bloated HPs that are popular in other games but the presentation just kinda sucks for most players.

[JDub]

This brewery really needs a better UI. As it is the way it works is cryptic.

[Kyang]

Well, with a fully upgraded gear set with correct options, I can drop most of the bosses hp to half before they start their first attack. I have to say that it's not that the upgrades suck, but it's difficult to figure out for some people.
Smithy upgrade for weapons with like 10 damage is 50% bonus damage total, which is a good number. I'd say they should buff the upgrade number for heavy weapons though, since going from 35 to 40 is just... bad.