New mini dragon at min 15 is too much for starters.

[Machine-Senpai]

If you at least give us 30 min.... today I'm doing much less progress than yesterday because I don't have the lightning at max level yet... don't like that....

In Vampire Survivors you at least had to max out your build in order to get to the end of the coutdown. here you just die because of that during the progress of the game... (I'm comparing games because you did it on your patch notes).

And I'm asuming that I would need the 3 tier lightning to kill the dragon by hitting the spawn of it, but I really don't know... I hope it's that and I can keep going, because if not, this game turned into a tedious game in which you have to die even when playing perfectly because of that...

Please, try to balance it a bit :)

[Jackass]

depends on what level your undead are at, my strategy is to build range and leave them at castle to defend why I control one high level undead and clear the map circle by circle, it is part of the game to keep dying though.

[Yaddah]

Oh no, they put an obstacle in your way. How dare they? Now you have to actually think about how you play instead of mindlessly deploying bodies. Literally unplayable.

[Machine-Senpai]

Originally posted by Yaddah:

Oh no, they put an obstacle in your way. How dare they? Now you have to actually think about how you play instead of mindlessly deploying bodies. Literally unplayable.

I'm not talking about that. I say that this needs to be balanced. Quoting again Vampire Survivors, this challenge come when you already went throught the whole experience of leveling up, and only if you survive that, you are going to be killed by the death (or not, of course).

You have a final challenge after the whole challenge that is the game. This is just an unbalanced barrier.

I like difficult games in which you have to go through the meta to beat it, but in my opinion, this is just an: ok, you don't have the right upgrades yet. You are dead until you have it. Bye and have a fun time being unable to progress over that until that point.

I don't know if I explain myself right, but it's basically that, again, in my opinion, this is something that should be added further in time to let feel the player the whole experience of the game without "absurd" stoppers. And after that, giving them an "imposible" challenge. But this is impossible for a new player that reached min 15 up until it have the lighting at lvl 3 and can throw it to the dragon spawn to defeat it and keep going.

Maybe later in the game I see a different way of doing it and I change my words, but for now I don't see any other way than that. It insta deletes all the units I can acquire at that moment (my maximum was 3 vampires, 2 harpy and 5 orc skeleton). All of them as the units with extra stats.

Originally posted by Jackass:

depends on what level your undead are at, my strategy is to build range and leave them at castle to defend why I control one high level undead and clear the map circle by circle, it is part of the game to keep dying though.

I agree, I tried that many times but I cannot defeat the dragon with the units I acquire at that time. I'll keep trying, thank you for your feedback there :)

[Lyar]

the first one isn't that bad. just get 3-4 bombers andcouple of harpy wings for big knockback and set them at your base to defend. i killed it after seeing it in the game for the 2nd time. but 2nd wave is really insane, 250 dmg 4 or 5 ultra fast enemies. you'll need a lot of werewolves and yotuns to get past it, since 3 of those they tore apart in seconds even with bomber cover

[Ivashu]

Even with mechs the third boss wave took a few tries, gonna be a hard difficulty spike for newer players to get past each one. So shorter bloodier games, guess that's what they want.

[Lyar]

also, never use steel harpy wings. they're ♥♥♥♥. projectiles have no piercing, it gives very little armor for the speed loss to matter. easily worst hand type in the game, regular harpy wing is way better with huge knockback and piercing

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by Machine-Senpai:

Originally posted by Yaddah:

Oh no, they put an obstacle in your way. How dare they? Now you have to actually think about how you play instead of mindlessly deploying bodies. Literally unplayable.

I'm not talking about that. I say that this needs to be balanced. Quoting again Vampire Survivors, this challenge come when you already went throught the whole experience of leveling up, and only if you survive that, you are going to be killed by the death (or not, of course).

You have a final challenge after the whole challenge that is the game. This is just an unbalanced barrier.

I like difficult games in which you have to go through the meta to beat it, but in my opinion, this is just an: ok, you don't have the right upgrades yet. You are dead until you have it. Bye and have a fun time being unable to progress over that until that point.

I don't know if I explain myself right, but it's basically that, again, in my opinion, this is something that should be added further in time to let feel the player the whole experience of the game without "absurd" stoppers. And after that, giving them an "imposible" challenge. But this is impossible for a new player that reached min 15 up until it have the lighting at lvl 3 and can throw it to the dragon spawn to defeat it and keep going.

Maybe later in the game I see a different way of doing it and I change my words, but for now I don't see any other way than that. It insta deletes all the units I can acquire at that moment (my maximum was 3 vampires, 2 harpy and 5 orc skeleton). All of them as the units with extra stats.

I agree that the boss is kinda uninspired. It's just like all the other bosses that say: "I'm faster and harder hitting than you could possibly be at this stage. Do you have bolt?" I'd love for the bosses to be hard, but require different strategies to beat. But it seems like this bolt-gate type boss is exactly what they want, as stated in their update post. I wish it was more interesting, but that doesn't seem to be what they want. They want to just send you back to the main menu.

Regarding Vamp Survivors, I didn't even know you could kill Death. How do you do it? I've been fully kitted out with the best of the best abilities and I cannot see how you could possibly survive that encounter. Gotta revisit that game it seems.

[Machine-Senpai]

Originally posted by Woland:

the first one isn't that bad. just get 3-4 bombers andcouple of harpy wings for big knockback and set them at your base to defend. i killed it after seeing it in the game for the 2nd time. but 2nd wave is really insane, 250 dmg 4 or 5 ultra fast enemies. you'll need a lot of werewolves and yotuns to get past it, since 3 of those they tore apart in seconds even with bomber cover

Thank you, I'll try that!

[Pizzarugi]

Judging by how the developers compared it to the Death enemy in Vampire Survivors in their announcement (enemy that will instakill you after 30 mins unless you got a really strong build), I get the impression the underground bosses are designed intentionally to be a game-ender until you're capable enough to handle them. It sounds to me like the devs want you to die frequently.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the "git gud" gatekeeper sorts. Goodness knows I only recently managed to overcome the enemies in the farmlands after upgrading the alchemy station to generate lizard parts, so the 15 minute boss spawn is pretty much a death sentence for me. It's just a vibe I'm picking up with this game that they want you to be challenged every step of the way and to spend time building yourself up to overcome it.

[Nate]

Completed the game twice on earlier versions. Had more fun then than with the new profile I started. The 15 minutes and then automatic death isn't fun. Can't collect much money in 15 minutes.

[Machine-Senpai]

well, I got the first wave done, but the next one is at 8 min and it absolutely demolish me... not gonna farm 20 hours for that. I'll wait until this is reasonable :)

Difficulty is not grindy.

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by Machine-Senpai:

well, I got the first wave done, but the next one is at 8 min and it absolutely demolish me... not gonna farm 20 hours for that. I'll wait until this is reasonable :)

Difficulty is not grindy.

Just upgrade your parts generator in your tower to produce golem parts. It should take a couple runs at best to get the gold to reach it. Golems can take on boss wave 2.

Upgrade generator to mechanoid to take on wave 3.

[Machine-Senpai]

Originally posted by Pizzarugi:

Originally posted by Machine-Senpai:

well, I got the first wave done, but the next one is at 8 min and it absolutely demolish me... not gonna farm 20 hours for that. I'll wait until this is reasonable :)

Difficulty is not grindy.

Just upgrade your parts generator in your tower to produce golem parts. It should take a couple runs at best to get the gold to reach it. Golems can take on boss wave 2.

Upgrade generator to mechanoid to take on wave 3.

just the generator? I don't need the lightning to lvl 3 for that too?

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by Machine-Senpai:

Originally posted by Pizzarugi:

Just upgrade your parts generator in your tower to produce golem parts. It should take a couple runs at best to get the gold to reach it. Golems can take on boss wave 2.

Upgrade generator to mechanoid to take on wave 3.

just the generator? I don't need the lightning to lvl 3 for that too?

Generator was good enough for me, I didn't get lightning to level 3 until wave 3.

The trick is to prioritize generator first and foremost. The minions are more important than your spells. 7 mechanoid defenders at your castle will easily fight off wave 3 than a level 3 lightning and golem guards will.

[Spimmy]

honestly there is to much of a grind at the start with this game that will put some people off playing it