Why do ranged weapons have any damage at all on Diver?

[gibbousmoon100]

I'm a little confused about Diver. If it has -100 weapon damage, then why do certain starting weapons (such as the shuriken) provide any damage at all?

[Jaasrg]

For starters, shurikens scale with melee damage.

[ZeppMan217]

Javelin, a projectile weapon, also scales with melee.

[gibbousmoon100]

Originally posted by Jaasrg:

For starters, shurikens scale with melee damage.

That sounds like very important information! How do you come across it in game?

[elite outsider]

Originally posted by gibbousmoon100:

Originally posted by Jaasrg:

For starters, shurikens scale with melee damage.

That sounds like very important information! How do you come across it in game?

the symbols where it shows how the damage is calculated (e.g. "30% <little sword icon>" means 30% of your 'melee damage' stat is added to the base damage of the weapon)

weapons can scale on melee (stick), ranged (smg), elemental (icicle), engineering (plank), attack speed (hatchet, mace), harvesting (sickle), hp (potato thrower), speed (jousting lance), armor (spike shield), life steal (sharp tooth), range (sniper gun/crossbow), luck (lute, flute), and curse (added by creature and by being cursed or naval e.g. anchor)

this also applies to items - baby elephant's damage is % of your luck * %damage
rip and tear scales off melee, baby with a beard scales off ranged
(all of the non-weapon damage effects use %damage, structures' damage does not, so pearl is really good for lucky/druid to make their luck damage blow up but it doesn't make your turrets stronger)

another thing to note:
- diver's damage penalty is on ranged weapons (weapons that use ranged damage), like harpoon gun or smg. not for projectile melee weapons like javelin/shuriken as said above
- generalist's limit is actually for melee (swing/stab) vs PROJECTILE weapons. he can only equip up to 3 weapons that fire projectiles, regardless of what damage they scale on (max 3 shurikens even though they scale on melee)
-> the way to know if something is a projectile or not: can it have pierce/bounce added by other items? javelin can, spear cannot
-> spear also 'stabs and returns to you' so it's obviously melee, not projectile

definitely two things that the game does a poor job explaining and most players miss

any time you watch a streamer try this game for the first time, they don't figure out the weapon scaling for ages

[gibbousmoon100]

Originally posted by elite outsider:

another thing to note:
- diver's damage penalty is on ranged weapons (weapons that use ranged damage), like harpoon gun or smg. not for projectile melee weapons like javelin/shuriken as said above

Not even on the ranged portion of the weapon scaling?

That's very confusing, if true.

[Kappa]

Originally posted by gibbousmoon100:

Originally posted by elite outsider:

another thing to note:
- diver's damage penalty is on ranged weapons (weapons that use ranged damage), like harpoon gun or smg. not for projectile melee weapons like javelin/shuriken as said above

Not even on the ranged portion of the weapon scaling?

That's very confusing, if true.

It's not.

Javelins get 100% melee and shurikens get 25% melee.
There's no ranged % involved.

[elite outsider]

Originally posted by Kappa:

Originally posted by gibbousmoon100:

Not even on the ranged portion of the weapon scaling?

That's very confusing, if true.

It's not.

Javelins get 100% melee and shurikens get 25% melee.
There's no ranged % involved.

yep exactly, no pink bow symbol means no ranged scaling

shuriken used to be unique (pre-DLC) for being a melee scaling projectile, since it's kind of counterintuitive.. now javelin is more of the same, basically

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by gibbousmoon100:

Originally posted by elite outsider:

another thing to note:
- diver's damage penalty is on ranged weapons (weapons that use ranged damage), like harpoon gun or smg. not for projectile melee weapons like javelin/shuriken as said above

Not even on the ranged portion of the weapon scaling?

That's very confusing, if true.

That's why you pick weapons that don't have a ranged portion of weapon scaling. Which exist, even for ranged weapons.

[elite outsider]

but also..the point of diver is to use a harpoon gun and a bunch of melee weapons
it's okay for the harpoon to do 1 damage because your other stuff will do huge damage

search for the recent diver thread for more info!

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by elite outsider:

but also..the point of diver is to use a harpoon gun and a bunch of melee weapons
it's okay for the harpoon to do 1 damage because your other stuff will do huge damage

search for the recent diver thread for more info!

Oh yeah, that too. You get a huge damage bonus for hitting with a projectile weapon that doesn't apply to projectile weapons, and enemies get a not quite as huge but still alarming on paper boost to HP.

[Adeptus Stark]

I sold the Harpoon and used an upgraded SMG to spam 1 damage to enemies so anytime I got close to hit in melee, they were already outlined in white to do bonus melee damage.

[elite outsider]

using harpoon gun is way better, no matter how clever you think that is
it's actually crazy powerful to stun and position the big nasty enemies to kill them easily

i bet you can honestly hit more enemies with it than smg without needing to find multiple pierce items

it works really well on other characters like creature too (better than on diver in some ways, since it does damage to kill small guys it pierces)

but to each their own!

[Vexsiaczek]

yes but i dont think so

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by Adeptus Stark:

I sold the Harpoon and used an upgraded SMG to spam 1 damage to enemies so anytime I got close to hit in melee, they were already outlined in white to do bonus melee damage. :brotato: :sans:

Flamethrower is another good one for this, basically playing as discount Chef (and Chef isn't especially strong!)