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Read the topic.
Also last time I've talked about a news I saw (next update being 1.0) someone didn't believe me and asked for a proof, so no complaining now you have it on the topic, so read it and don't go off-topic.
Also, in each of those threads about coop, you've been like 'no', 'this is singleplayer', 'buy a coop game' and 'game is not designed around coop'. But once your holy grail VS just - and I like to emphasize this - just only announced this, meaning you don't even know if it is well implemented or works well, you make a 180 turn? I mean it's not wrong to change your opinion, but it's like your whole opinion how games should be is solely based around VS.
Also not like this is new, Bounty of One has Co-Op since release.
As a matter of fact, if you dislike brotato such much, and you love VS so much. Why are you constantly posting here, and not in the VS forum? Why don't I see you there around?
I wonder if you did read the topic and didn't understood or you just didn't read the topic.
I think you didn't read it because I've said "I can't believe it, but Vampire Survivors will have a couch co-op mode, before people get mad because it's VS".
Read the topic and if you don't understand I'll explain the parts you don't understand, but only after you make the efforts of reading the topic.
Just because you write 'before people get mad because it's VS' does not change that "VS News" should not be in the "Brotato Forum". That logic is like, before insulting someone, you say "Before you are offended, no offense".
Ok you didn't understand and went off-topic.
So I'll explain again and you'll be mad again because I'm talking about Vampire Survivors just to explain you: Co-op in Vampire Survivors was supposed to be impossible just like Brotato, I mean how could you do that when both games can have stutters if there is too much stuff on the screen ?
Now the VS dev said he'll work on a co-op to up to 4 players at a time, wich mean Brotato could also have a co-op mode and the brotato dev can get some inspiration from VS, do you understand now ?
And that's the reason, why I think your thread is spam, or more like you simply hyping VS. Not because I don't understand, I simply don't agree with you. This news changes nothing. Coop was always possible, as Bounty of One already showed this.
But again, you decide for me, that I don't understand, since you just cannot accept that I have a different opinion. I guess you are the one that does not understand. Maybe try accepting another viewpoint.
Co-op can be impossible in a developer perspective for many reasons:
- The engine won't allow it
- The game genre won't allow it
- No enough space
- Balance issues
You think, but you don't know, that's why I'm explaining what you don't understand.
For exemple you don't know if Vampire Survivors find an easy way to add co-op and Brotato dev can use that same technique to make co-op in Brotato. You don't know if dev wants to add co-op after version 1.0 . You don't know if modders will add co-op in Brotato. So let's talk about things we know and things that can be possible, if you don't like that VS may have a co-op mode then you are just trolling here since you bring nothing to the table.
That's not impossible, that's simply a case of "We'll have to find a way how". If I would develop a game and I had these problems, I'd either change the engine (what VS did), find a way to incorporate coop (see Bounty of One), Space? we're in 2023, that's not an issue, and we're talking about VS and Brotato, balance issue, well then how about you balance it?
There is no impossible, there is simply, which problems are there and what do we need to change that we don't have these problems anymore. A dev who let's himself limit by something like that, either is not motivated enough to solve them, or is just bad. (I'm not assuming this, that my job)
- You don't know if modders will add co-op in Brotato.
We already have a Brotato co-op mod since 06.06.23 ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985539742 )
- if you don't like that VS may have a co-op mode
I like VS, that why I have 100% in it. Don't know why you assume I don't like it. I think it's a great addition to the game. Never said, that it's a bad idea. The issue, is you, and I don't know how often I should repeat myself here, that you constantly have to mention VS in the Brotato Forums and you want Brotato to be like VS. But I (and probably others) don't want that.
Why am I even trying to convince you? It's not possible to have a discussion with you. Instead of arguing about the matter, you start to assume stuff about the other person (did not read post, did not understand post, does not like VS coop), so that you don't need to answer to criticism. I'm out of this, it's like talking to a wall....
He just comes across as over-explaining and VS is the closest thing he has to compare to, and now wants to retract or amend some statements he made before to admit he is more open to the idea now...
Sure its a bit BS that he holds a game like VS as some standard in this, but thats kind of besides the admission he is trying to make.
He had a few convos that involved naysaying coop it seems, and I know one of them at least was in reply to myself. So I kinda get it if he is changing his tune that he'd want it out there for the record.
We've read his stuff after all,... so if he continues to post, it helps to be on the same page.
@Deathraven
Cool that they are doing it... but its still a stupid idea.
I don't think Brotato should have it, just because VS does... And I don't think it shows or hints at any possibility of it working out in Brotatos case.
And further I don't think VS will benefit from having it enough to make the work worthwhile. Kinda not a great game for it. People will play it once or twice together and then forget about it. 1% of the player base probably.
Happens in alot of games actually... people bark for co-op, and then don't use it. Just ask the question, "what does multiplayer really add to the game?"
Answer: Nothing but a second liability.
OnTopic:
No, I don't need coop implemented by the dev. Mod should suffice.
You are correct on the first part, I've said that co-op would be dumb and probably impossible, while it may be impossible due to GODOT engine limitations with Brotato it could give some ideas to devs, and I talk about things I know so the only game I have that is like Brotato is Vampire Survivors wich sounds reasonnable considering that it made the genre popular.
A lot of people said that VS can't/would not have a co-op mode wich I agreed with, but now it seems that the dev/devs wants to try it and the game costed like 3$ at the time or something (no DLC at the time), so why Brotato couldn't have a co-op now ? This info shows that Brotato can have a co-op AND that it could work since in the topic VS got some exemple that could work for Brotato, I also gave an exemple on how to balance it.
Co-op can change a game for the better, first of all it's a good advertissement because streamers will do collabs on that game, I'll say the word again but mark my word if VS get it's co-op mode you'll see a lot of people stream it. It's also possible that we'll see some new mechanics with co-op. So now the people who are asking a co-op mode for Brotato have a good exemple.
What does multiplayer add to the game ? More fun and it can make a game popular, for exremple Fortnite, at first it was a PvE game, 4 players defending against waves of creatures, now they go PvP battle royal style and BOOM now it's a huge success.
Left 4 dead: You can play solo with 3 bots or play with friends, but playing with friends is better.
So imagine Brotato with 2 to 4 players, each players taking a different character means that you'll get a lot more variety, like one of them pick fisherman and pick baits, one pick engineer, one farmer, and one pick Renegade, tell me this doesn't change a thing.
In the end if dev add co-op it would not affect you in any way especialy if version 1.0 is the end of SP, remember that dev added endless mode and it didn't change much because it's still SP content, now with co-op that's MP content worth playing unless you have no one to play with.
Finaly: If people are afraid that co-op mode will lack stuff they forget that brotato have mods, so we may see mods for co-op, maybe there are some mods that improve endless mode too (I didn't check the workshop yet).
Do you have some reasons why a co-op mode that can be balanced shouldn't be in the game after version 1.0 ?
Now that you bring up left for dead and ♥♥♥♥... I have to point out again, Brotato is not VS.
It is not Left 4 dead.
They are fundamentally different.
VS is more casino like presentation, but more than that- it involves exploration to an extent where as brotato limits you to a tiny box. Multiplayer inherently has more benefit there, even if I still predict it will be a wasted effort.
And left 4 dead, isn't even within the same genre or remotely similar.
"So imagine Brotato with 2 to 4 players, each players taking a different character means that you'll get a lot more variety, like one of them pick fisherman and pick baits, one pick engineer, one farmer, and one pick Renegade, tell me this doesn't change a thing."
Yea,... it means you need a bigger map, a complete re balance, a way to make it so both players can see enough that they can react as they did before(meaning coop/split screen doesnt work by default unless you like torturing your players... and this is worth mentioning since split screen comes up alot) We arn't even talking about JUST the code anymore, which is usually the hold up.
And most importantly, it means double the current game price because NOTHING about the current game meshes well with that.
Since you like comparing to VS so much, lets take that as the comparison.... do you need a 100% remodel to fit multiplayer into that? Nope. Its already wide and at 'most' you need a rebalance.. Do you need twitch reflexes to react to everything? No, its more about your build so idk if it is doing split screen but it it works there more smoothly. Sleepy style gameplay means less design changes are needed(if any) to accommodate it.
So long as you are comparing apples and oranges, you will continue to run into people that will simply roll their eyes at this.
I am not saying that multiplayer can't be implemented here... don't get me wrong. Developers make mistakes all the time. This would simply be one of them.
IN VS players share the same screen so Brotato can also have that, otherwise it's not impossible to just zoom out the map, you said that co-op was not impossible yet you are saying in Brotato it wouldn't be possible.
Casual players believe that VS is just easy and it's all about build but they are wrong because you just have more options of what you want to play, you could go with golden egg and stuff and win without moving, you could challenge yourself and give yourself no bonus stats aside curse and play vanila so no golden eggs and no aracanas, you could even go harder by adding reverse, 1 limit weapon and such, since Brotato and VS ARE COMPARABLE it's like saying Brotato is easy because you can beat D0 with all difficulty sliders to the minimum, heck I bet it could be possible to beat it without moving at D0-max.
So let's resume:
- Can Brotato have a multiplayer ? Yes
- Can brotato be balanced for MP ? Yes
- Do another game of the same genre do the same ? Yes
- Can Brotato have DLCs ? Yes
I never said it was impossible. At all.
I also never said VS was easy... its gameplay is different. I watch the pros play, and the non-pros on a near daily basis so its not like I am unaware....
What I said about MP in Brotato was that it was troublesome. And not worth the effort. Not that it was impossible. And that what generally happens is that when multiplayer is added to a game like this, generally far less people end up using it than you think,... further decreasing its value.
Which I might add, your points do not address at all, nor do they adequately address the differences between the games you are comparing.
Not once did I say or imply it was impossible. If you are going to just make stuff up, then I am afraid you might have been more worth Azael's critism than I previously thought. I have to agree with him, that its absolutely pointless to discuss anything with you when you are pulling that crap.
I'll only resume the discussion if you first knock it off.
Also,... if you just want to reiterate for like the 100th time that its 'possible' to add multiplayer, then just save your breathe. We clearly already agree on that point and you are just wasting everyones time.