Hunting Trophy, Thief Knife etc.

[Draygo]

Why are they so weak? You get a CHANCE to get 1 material on crit AND kill? That's absurd. That's stacking 2 chances for 1 material, they can't possibly ever pay themselves off

[Eggplant]

With high crit chance, Hunting Trophy is one of the strongest econ items in the game. It definitely isn't weak for the builds it's intended for.

[Draygo]

But its a 33% chance per trophy, ON crit, ON kill...how could that pay off? That's a max of 1 per enemy, if you kill them with a crit, AND the trophy procs

[Eggplant]

Any build that's using crit-based weapons should be working towards 100% Crit Chance, which isn't that hard to reach with the Precise set bonus and the inherent crit chance of those weapons. You should easily be getting enough kills for it to pay for itself unless you find it late in the run (or aren't doing a crit build).

One of the runs I did with Hunter a while back, I picked a Hunting Trophy on wave 9 and it generated 1765 materials by the end of the run.

[Draygo]

Yeah but I'm just saying, even with 100% crit chance, its 1 per kill, WHEN it procs. Because the proc isn't even guaranteed. The same with tentacle, its just a lot of conditions to go through for pretty little gain, IMO

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Draygo:

Yeah but I'm just saying, even with 100% crit chance, its 1 per kill, WHEN it procs. Because the proc isn't even guaranteed. The same with tentacle, its just a lot of conditions to go through for pretty little gain, IMO

Nothing we can do about it tbh.

[Irie]

Originally posted by Draygo:

Yeah but I'm just saying, even with 100% crit chance, its 1 per kill, WHEN it procs. Because the proc isn't even guaranteed. The same with tentacle, its just a lot of conditions to go through for pretty little gain, IMO

It is one of the best economy items in the game. It pays itsself off in a few rounds easily even with low crit. You can hover over it in the shop to check your returns. It is also insanely good to stack because each trophy procs independant of others. Once you have 100% crit each one is essentially +33% material gain per round.

[GeminiEclipse]

Rounds will have over 100 enemies spawn. Math doesn't care about opinions.

[ShinkuTear]

Hunting Trophy is the only form of Econ that stays any good as you get further and further into Endless.

Harvesting drops to such a degree that only Farmer can keep up, and enemies eventually stop dropping money entirely. But the enemy counts don't shrink. Get yourself several Hunting Trophy, and you can sustain some amount of income.

Each trophy rolls the 33% on every critikill, so if you have 4 or 5 trophies, you'll fairly consistently get at least 1 proc per enemy.

[HeraldOfOpera]

There are so few ways to increase income that Hunting Trophy is still good even with all that you've said. Being multiplicative with several of those other ways certainly helps.

[thunda]

Hunting Trophy is one of the best items in the game for any crit build, essentially an instabuy/lock whenever you see it. It used to be 50% chance but that was even more busted so it got nerfed to 33%

[Deathraven13]

Since this topic as not been marked as answered I suppose OP should see for themselves if it work or not, so if people have a selected character along a build to submit go ahead.

In Vampire Survivors there is a weapon that looked weak at first but it was actually very OP (catty amari or something like that), in order to get stronger a cat needed to eat a chicken in order to increase it's damage and when two cats collide they fight, dealing damage in a AOE, so at first it wasn't obvious but it's actualy good in the long run unless there is no chickens on this map.

So here it looks bad too but in the long run it's better. Alas it's better if you try yourself because on paper it's hard to convince you.

[Zechnophobe]

If you are going Endless, it's crazy good, since so many strong crit synergies exist. If you just have a little bit of crit, no it won't pay you much.

[Real Men Never Flush Twice]

I agree and disagre with OP. Yes, the item is incredibly weak compared to almost all other weapons in the game. But this is for a good reason: late game this is one of the strongest eco items you could get your hands on. Especially if you add Huning trophies to the mix. We could somewhat see this before the latest update, but now with endless mode (and a slight buff to the weapon) we can certainly see it. As inflation increases, enemies drop less materials, piggy bank gets nullified and hravesting decreases by 10% every wave, this is really the only reliable income left.
Now, granted, this is a solution to a problem that should not exist in the first place. As I've said before: the dev never intended on creating an endless mode, but he did so anyway because every person was messaging him constantly about it. So he implemented it...poorly. Not much work or thought went into it, which ended up with all of these people now complaining about how crappy the mode is, lol. Oh, the irony.
Anyway, if you want to have a fun run on endless mode without resorting to (in my opinion) really boring tricks to keep surviving through the waves, you will have to get your materials from bounties. In other words: thieves daggers and hunting trophies.
The first few waves shouldn't be a problem. Try to make it to wave 9, which will be a goldmine. Spend that money wisely and make sure you'll survive the next few waves, which are the hardest by far (poor balancing and all - a recurring problem in this game, lol). You'll notice a tipping point where the surplus money you make thanks to your weapons (and hopefully hunting trophies) will compensate the bad scaling and damage output of the weapon. It's actually kind of a fun challenge and once you get good at it, you'll notice just how insane it is later in the game.

Fun tip: try doing it with the Loud character and get to the +150% enemies. The amount of money you'll get is insane.

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Courtesy Flush:

I agree and disagre with OP. Yes, the item is incredibly weak compared to almost all other weapons in the game. But this is for a good reason: late game this is one of the strongest eco items you could get your hands on. Especially if you add Huning trophies to the mix. We could somewhat see this before the latest update, but now with endless mode (and a slight buff to the weapon) we can certainly see it. As inflation increases, enemies drop less materials, piggy bank gets nullified and hravesting decreases by 10% every wave, this is really the only reliable income left.
Now, granted, this is a solution to a problem that should not exist in the first place. As I've said before: the dev never intended on creating an endless mode, but he did so anyway because every person was messaging him constantly about it. So he implemented it...poorly. Not much work or thought went into it, which ended up with all of these people now complaining about how crappy the mode is, lol. Oh, the irony.
Anyway, if you want to have a fun run on endless mode without resorting to (in my opinion) really boring tricks to keep surviving through the waves, you will have to get your materials from bounties. In other words: thieves daggers and hunting trophies.
The first few waves shouldn't be a problem. Try to make it to wave 9, which will be a goldmine. Spend that money wisely and make sure you'll survive the next few waves, which are the hardest by far (poor balancing and all - a recurring problem in this game, lol). You'll notice a tipping point where the surplus money you make thanks to your weapons (and hopefully hunting trophies) will compensate the bad scaling and damage output of the weapon. It's actually kind of a fun challenge and once you get good at it, you'll notice just how insane it is later in the game.

Fun tip: try doing it with the Loud character and get to the +150% enemies. The amount of money you'll get is insane.

Well the thing is the dev didn't have much choice as you've said since people asked for an endless mode but here it's more like a survival mode (and I like it, skilled players get to have fun with it).

But dev at to take into account the players feedback, I saw here people saying that Endless in Vampire Survivors didn't requiere a brain, that it's boring, but they want the same thing in Brotato so obviously that's confusing, as of right now there is no real point in playing endless mode other that for the challenge, like trying to get as high as you can in an endless D5 182%, well the rng part suck so it's reset heavy but you have that feel of accomplishment when you finaly get to have a good run and get past a wave that you couldn't complete before.

Well dev don't need to change endless mode since the same players said that if you find the game hard you could always use mods and they've said that there is a mod that let you have the piggy bank and other stacking effect, this connect us to the topic because one very good way for OP to see if these items are good or not is to download whatever that mod was and make a build around it in endless mode, no need for endless D5 182% just a regular endless D0 run could work, at worse OP can do like the players who ask for a better endless mode and don't use mods: endless D0 all sliders to the minimum, maybe it would be fun for the items Op mentionned, I wonder what OP and others would pick (aside hunter).

[Anhigen]

Originally posted by Draygo:

Why are they so weak? You get a CHANCE to get 1 material on crit AND kill? That's absurd. That's stacking 2 chances for 1 material, they can't possibly ever pay themselves off

Bro, I feel you. Chance on chance effects feel so underwhelming even if, in the case of HT, they’re *technically* good.

For instance, the recent switch from the loot goblin maybe dropping a crate to only dropping a crate was such a good change—when you see him you KNOW what’s at stake. Chance on chance effects hide their impact instead of highlighting it. Like, what if fruit only had a chance to heal you instead of always healing you… not as cool, right?

Maybe crit and dodge need to feel more like lifesteal, in terms of percentage, so that when we do see a crit we KNOW it’s gunna be good