Lich is fun but it's not a Lich.

[Skiiage]

It's SO much easier to go with Scissors, Saws, or Medical Guns and buy HP than to build Ghost Sceptres and make up for the damage/healing deficit.

Plus Ethereal makes controlling HP a pain in the ass and Blood Donation is giga broken on him.

I guess what I'm saying is that he's more of a mad scientist exploding with lesions (like Dr Mundo from LOL) than an undead wizard defying death with dark magic. We need a class that summons spooky skeletons or something.

[Irie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Skiiage:

If we are looking for ways to buff Lich to make it more reliable, I would just give the health damage the same target selection as weapons instead of proccing on some random dude on the other side of the map.

You could probably make it do half the damage it does now and Lich would still be insanely strong. And finally able to kill Elites.

I do think it should target the closest enemy. Being a random enemy is certainly a hindrance, especially early when you have to run around so much to pick up the random material that got dropped at the edges of the map.

[Anhigen]

Totally agree that his motif doesn't really fit his kit--he's much more like a blood mage than a lich. There isn't anything undead about him.

I like how Brotato has classes where you avoid taking damage at all cost, real glass canon type potatos and builds, and then there are classes that take those instincts and turn them on their heads like masochist. I enjoy the effect of trying to take damage to increase my damage but as you said, it's not very... lich.

I think now that cyborg is in the game a class like lich doesn't have to be cousins with masochist and instead could have a flip mechanic based around the dead aliens. Something time based like cyborg where half way through all the aliens you've killed get resurrected as your army and you become instantly frail--maybe trading some health and armor stats for minion damage. Or maybe it's triggered upon your health reaching zero--you die but then all the things you've killed come back to life and fight for you. If all your minions die though you lose.

Maybe that wouldn't fit Brotato rn but I think the game will eventually have enough room for fun mechanics like that. But right now, you're right, the lich is all about... stacking health? Like, that can't be right. That's not THIS potato.

Edit: All the aliens coming back would be too hard on the game but a class like, "Upon taking fatal damage Lich transcends into an immobile spectre and summons up to 6 potatoes, each armed with one of his weapons, to fight on his behalf. If the Miniontatos survive to the end of the round, Lich is reanimated for the next wave."

[Irie]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2940044349

Of course ...

[Duneman]

Lich is a bit weird in that he's essentially a plague berserker. Give him Scissors, look for Sad Tomato, Riposte, Adrenaline, and rush enemies like a maniac. The more bloat to his HP the better.

[thunda]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Duneman:

Lich is a bit weird in that he's essentially a plague berserker. Give him Scissors, look for Sad Tomato, Riposte, Adrenaline, and rush enemies like a maniac. The more bloat to his HP the better.

Riposte is trash wtf are you even talking about. You dont want Dodge on him either.

[Vengyr]

Engineering build
Bottom text

[Irie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Duneman:

Lich is a bit weird in that he's essentially a plague berserker. Give him Scissors, look for Sad Tomato, Riposte, Adrenaline, and rush enemies like a maniac. The more bloat to his HP the better.

Riposte is trash wtf are you even talking about. You dont want Dodge on him either.

You absolutly want dodge on him. But yea riposte is questionable due to the damage reduction. Dodge is great though, you only need to get hit if you are full life, you dont need to constantly get hit.

[thunda]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Irie:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:

Riposte is trash wtf are you even talking about. You dont want Dodge on him either.

You absolutly want dodge on him. But yea riposte is questionable due to the damage reduction. Dodge is great though, you only need to get hit if you are full life, you dont need to constantly get hit.

Only if you want to play Endless. For normal its absolutely a waste

[GeminiEclipse]

My easiest times with Lich (most of them were on the struggle bus straight to failure city) were with Choppers or Circular Saws. Maybe the arcing attack just fits with how I play.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Duneman:

Lich is a bit weird in that he's essentially a plague berserker. Give him Scissors, look for Sad Tomato, Riposte, Adrenaline, and rush enemies like a maniac. The more bloat to his HP the better.

Riposte is trash wtf are you even talking about. You dont want Dodge on him either.

It's not actively terrible on Brawler and Ghost, who already have a lot of Dodge and Melee Damage if you're playing them correctly. Definitely no business being on anyone else.

[Duneman]

I dunno, I think people are being overly harsh on Riposte for the Lich. That character WANTS to rush enemies, WANTS to dodge attacks with reckless abandon. While they have -50% to damage modifiers you don't want to completely ignore weapons, as they're your source of Life Steal, to stack with HP Regen. I'm not saying go specifically go out of your way for it, but layers more damage stacks on enemies.

It is true though that a lot of damage should come from HP bloat. You also don't need to be seriously injured for the effect to work, just a few points missing is fine. That's also why Sad Tomato is a nice wave starter for him to help burn down the initial spawns.

[Irie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Duneman:

I dunno, I think people are being overly harsh on Riposte for the Lich. That character WANTS to rush enemies, WANTS to dodge attacks with reckless abandon. While they have -50% to damage modifiers you don't want to completely ignore weapons, as they're your source of Life Steal, to stack with HP Regen. I'm not saying go specifically go out of your way for it, but layers more damage stacks on enemies.

It is true though that a lot of damage should come from HP bloat. You also don't need to be seriously injured for the effect to work, just a few points missing is fine. That's also why Sad Tomato is a nice wave starter for him to help burn down the initial spawns.

Riposte is ok, it is not great. Some people here are overly critical of the 50% damage modifier. I personally wouldn't take it but you can. I lean into the hp/regen mechanic and he feels like one of the easiest potatos to clear wave 20, and I have gotten him to wave 32 only using this mechanic. With more padding and tardigrade luck I have no doubt lich can go farther.

[thunda]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von HeraldOfOpera:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:

Riposte is trash wtf are you even talking about. You dont want Dodge on him either.

It's not actively terrible on Brawler and Ghost, who already have a lot of Dodge and Melee Damage if you're playing them correctly. Definitely no business being on anyone else.

I think its absolute trash on any character. I picked it for my Ghost run and it does ♥♥♥♥ all to anything. Complete noob trap. A tier 4 turret does more than it, on a non-Engineering build.

The thing with Dodge is that its a last resort, you should manually dodge everythin you can. If for example as Ghost you start relying on Dodge well good luck, youre gonna get blown up sooner rather than later.

Combined with the pitiful damage its just doesnt do anything. Yay you hit a single mob for 500, in the meanwhile just one of your weapons did 5000 damage..

[Irie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von HeraldOfOpera:

It's not actively terrible on Brawler and Ghost, who already have a lot of Dodge and Melee Damage if you're playing them correctly. Definitely no business being on anyone else.

I think its absolute trash on any character. I picked it for my Ghost run and it does ♥♥♥♥ all to anything. Complete noob trap. A tier 4 turret does more than it, on a non-Engineering build.

The thing with Dodge is that its a last resort, you should manually dodge everythin you can. If for example as Ghost you start relying on Dodge well good luck, youre gonna get blown up sooner rather than later.

Combined with the pitiful damage its just doesnt do anything. Yay you hit a single mob for 500, in the meanwhile just one of your weapons did 5000 damage..

Ghost is actually very easy to survive on. I agree don't count on it BUT -100 armor is just a 88% Damage increase. You can counter that with health. For Lich dodge is fantastic because you do want to run straight into mobs to take some damage. The dodge just acts as a buffer to allow regen to counter while you wait for the next tick of damage. Just a good way to run straight through a pack, grabbing materials or fruits for explosions if you have sauce.

[Anhigen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:

Yay you hit a single mob for 500, in the meanwhile just one of your weapons did 5000 damage..

Riposte is really useful as an elite/boss killer -- although the 50% hit chance is completely unnecessary given that it only procs on a successful dodge anyway -- but you're totally right about it being a bad item for Lich. Dodging damage works against their kit.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Irie:

For Lich dodge is fantastic because you do want to run straight into mobs to take some damage. The dodge just acts as a buffer

This is what you want armour for. You want lots of little damage on Lich, so that you're constantly healing which is why items like Bloody Hands and Blood Donation work so well on Lich, but you can get their same effect by stacking armour and letting the aliens damage you. Health and armour > dodge. Also, Riposte doesn't offer you health which increases your passive damage. You can rethink Lich as trying to build a huge health pool that you can't fill up even with your great regen -- that way you're constantly doing damage with your passive.