New Update: HP Regen - Health - Dodge Cap

[Demran]

With the new update changes;

-HP Regen effectiveness is lowered by 40-45% approximately.
(For example with 85 HP, 22 Regen was 3,74 hp per second, now down to 2.07 hp per second, did a few more tests and all comes up with the numbers 40-45%)
-Armor effectiveness lowered.
-Dodge cap lowered from 70% to 60% too.

Is this the way of Dev saying; Go DPS and run around like headless chickens or quit the game?

[just.dont.do.it]

Currently yes.
Later I hope we would get some new adequate means of stalling and other defensive approaches.

The changes were still needed, because before that update you could quite reliably build some characters to just STAND there, effectively sidestepping all gameplay. Now, it's much harder to get to that mark, in most cases you still have to actually play - move through the crowd efficiently, prioritize enemies, etc.

[Demran]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Currently yes.
Later I hope we would get some new adequate means of stalling and other defensive approaches.

The changes were still needed, because before that update you could quite reliably build some characters to just STAND there, effectively sidestepping all gameplay. Now, it's much harder to get to that mark, in most cases you still have to actually play - move through the crowd efficiently, prioritize enemies, etc.

Well "increase x by xx% while standing" items are quite common. Not to mention a character build around this entirely. So I doubt that standing is the actual problem.

I would be ok with just 1 out of those 3 changes, but when all 3 came together, it felt like Dev is showing the playerbase the middle finger lol. Not that I care, I already finished every possible achievement, character in hard difficulties etc within 2-3 days. But was just wondering, since I still enjoy the game, finding new builds and such.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Demran:

Well "increase x by xx% while standing" items are quite common. Not to mention a character build around this entirely. So I doubt that standing is the actual problem.

Ehhh, no.
There's 2 purple items with "standing still" bonuses, and both are pretty bad as they are, their only value lies with synergy with the couch legendary.
There's also one character that has the gimmick with "standing still" and can use one of the abovementioned purple items (the other one - not necessarily).

That's not "common" by any measure.

[Demran]

3-4 items directly named after the build (dodge+ & armor+ & attack speed+, can't remember the 4th from the top of my head, I will edit later when I come across), and about at least a dozen more indirectly perfect for the build is pretty common to me.
Saver for example has only 1 such item (Padding), and most other builds has 1 for them as well.
That's pretty "common" by all measures of this game's build system. Not to mention after class specific item drop chances had been increased like this.

Anyway, that's not even the point of the topic. No need to move to other topics.

[just.dont.do.it]

Right, there's 3. Barricade (armor+), Chameleon (dodge+) and Statue (dmg+). There's no fourth one. And "by default" Soldier can only put dmg+ to use, other two items might not be even worth it, depending on the situation. So I wouldn't even call them specifically Soldier-related items. Barricade and Statue are Couch-related due to having substantial -speed modifiers. Chameleon is just extremely situational.

[Void Opal]

I really don't understand the update so far. People are complaining about danger V being unfun due to being one-shot or two-shot, so the dev makes armor half as effective, makes HP regen basically worthless, nerfs dodge, and rolls out a wall of weapon and character nerfs. Some heavier handed than others.

Is there some broken strategy here I'm missing? Or are they just balancing for edge cases and low danger levels?

[Snowfunk]

I just don't get it.
Difficulty 5 was already a real struggle.

And now, nerf every defensive stat and most characters.... Like wut.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Snowfunk:

I just don't get it.
Difficulty 5 was already a real struggle.

It really wasn't.
I have quite a number of chars (played in beta, e.g. with the changes) where I won D5 first try. Masochist, Pacifist, Demon, Loud, Explorer. It's really not a "real struggle" if you can win first try. Not to mention that I really suck at dodging and win most of the runs by being tanky enough,

Not to mention that update did not *only* nerfed survivability. Now you're also getting +1hp for lvlup for free. That's a lot of difference.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

I have quite a number of chars (played in beta, e.g. with the changes) where I won D5 first try. Masochist, Pacifist, Demon, Loud, Explorer. It's really not a "real struggle" if you can win first try.

Either you are really good or really lucky. But for most people D3 is neigh impossible, let alone D5

[Demran]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Right, there's 3. Barricade (armor+), Chameleon (dodge+) and Statue (dmg+). There's no fourth one. And "by default" Soldier can only put dmg+ to use, other two items might not be even worth it, depending on the situation. So I wouldn't even call them specifically Soldier-related items. Barricade and Statue are Couch-related due to having substantial -speed modifiers. Chameleon is just extremely situational.

What does that even mean; "by default put to use" lol. All 3 of them are extremely important items for Soldier, and with around a dozen more perfectly suitable other drops, items for standing still build is quite common "as compared to other builds", especially with the addition of "class specific item drop chance increase", dont make me repeat myself over and over again mate. It is pretty simple stuff, so lets get back to the topic.

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Snowfunk:

I just don't get it.
Difficulty 5 was already a real struggle.

It really wasn't.
I have quite a number of chars (played in beta, e.g. with the changes) where I won D5 first try. Masochist, Pacifist, Demon, Loud, Explorer. It's really not a "real struggle" if you can win first try...

Stop gaslighting people, what do you expect? Everyone to worship you and think you are the best player in the World with these comments? They are telling their opinions about the changes. That's why we are writing here, not for your amusement and definitely not for you to fill your ego by trying to have the last word over everyone else.

I don't have trouble in harder difficulties too, yes sometimes I get lose streaks sometimes win streaks. The point of the topic is what is the reason Dev made this change, and how people feel about it. Stop gaslighting people for a minute so people can speak their minds, tell their opinions and what they feel about the change.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Demran:

What does that even mean; "by default put to use" lol. All 3 of them are extremely important items for Soldier

It means that in majority of cases you'd want this item. Barricade and Chameleon? Nope, not so much. Raising your survivability only when you stand still isn't really that valuable: if you're letting enemies gather on you, you'll die either way - either from enemies gettings too much hits (eventually) or you trying to move away and immediately losing all those bonuses. Getting these items help you mostly in cases where you're absolutely sure you can stand still the whole wave - that point is achievable, but it's really not easy to get there.

Originally posted by Demran:

Stop gaslighting people, what do you expect?

When people make carpet statements such as "X is bad", and you answer them "but in my case X was pretty good" - it's not gaslighting.
Furthermore, even if people say "in my case X was bad" and you answer with "but in my case it was good" - it's still not.
Gaslighting starts where people say "in my case X was bad" and you answer "no, you're wrong, in your case X must've been good!".
You might want to check your definitions before applying them.

[Demran]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Demran:

What does that even mean; "by default put to use" lol. All 3 of them are extremely important items for Soldier

It means that in majority of cases you'd want this item. Barricade and Chameleon? Nope, not so much. Raising your survivability only when you stand still isn't really that valuable

Do you even hear yourself? Game's some of the most price performance ratio items, you would buy them even with the most glass cannon stand still runs just for the efficiency. Stand Still items are a special type, since they limit you from moving, their stats are much higher then usual ones in return. It is literally a facepalm, doing Stand Still run and not getting them.

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Demran:

Stop gaslighting people, what do you expect?

When people make carpet statements such as "X is bad", and you answer them "but in my case X was pretty good" - it's not gaslighting.

No.

Originally posted by Snowfunk:

I just don't get it.
Difficulty 5 was already a real struggle.

He said what he believes in, that it was a struggle for him, and others apparently think the same.
And your reply was;

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

It really wasn't.
I have quite a number of chars (played in beta, e.g. with the changes) where I won D5 first try. Masochist, Pacifist, Demon, Loud, Explorer. It's really not a "real struggle" if you can win first try.

That it is "not a struggle". That is gaslighting.
After that you proceed to explain how amazingly super awesome you are. I don't really have to mention that last part, but it is super funny lol

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Demran:

Do you even hear yourself? Game's some of the most price performance ratio items, you would buy them even with the most glass cannon stand still runs just for the efficiency. Stand Still items are a special type, since they limit you from moving, their stats are much higher then usual ones in return. It is literally a facepalm, doing Stand Still run and not getting them.

What difference does it make if you die? "I bought Chameleon and Barricade for my Soldier, it was an amazing value, I still died, but value was amazing!".
You'd buy them, of course, if your run is at a point where you really can stand still pretty much all the time after buying these items. However, my couple of runs with a Soldier never even reached that point (and I eventually won while still not being tanky enough to just stand). Hence, I put those in "situational" - you might use them, but they're far from instant buy.

Originally posted by Demran:

He said what he believes in, that it was a struggle for him, and others apparently think the same.

Exactly. And I don't think the same, and I have specific examples as to why.
That's all.

[Eggplant]

You guys are only looking at the nerfs in the patch and not any of the buffs. Enemy damage was lowered, you gain max HP on level up now, and HP regen is stronger than it was for builds that don't have a ton of max HP.

It is harder to make a build that can just facetank everything, but on the other hand you also don't need to invest as much money/upgrades into defensive stuff to have an adequate amount of survivability for later waves.

[Demran]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Demran:

Do you even hear yourself? Game's some of the most price performance ratio items, you would buy them even with the most glass cannon stand still runs just for the efficiency. Stand Still items are a special type, since they limit you from moving, their stats are much higher then usual ones in return. It is literally a facepalm, doing Stand Still run and not getting them.

What difference does it make if you die? "I bought Chameleon and Barricade for my Soldier, it was an amazing value, I still died, but value was amazing!".
You'd buy them, of course, if your run is at a point where you really can stand still pretty much all the time after buying these items. However, my couple of runs with a Soldier never even reached that point (and I eventually won while still not being tanky enough to just stand). Hence, I put those in "situational" - you might use them, but they're far from instant buy.

Who told you to stand there all the time, stand still for 30 seconds move for 2 where necessary. I don't even understand what this nonsense you are talking about. There is no discussion here. The item is MADE for Soldier, it is amazing for the Soldier, it is literally written in there, "Stand Still", what Padding is for a Saver, it is the same for these items for Soldier. What are you even arguing about dude? Lol.
It is not situational either, unless your situation is going Glass Cannon on a Knight and not stacking any Armor for some reason, it is the same with Soldier and those items.

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Demran:

He said what he believes in, that it was a struggle for him, and others apparently think the same.

Exactly. And I don't think the same, and I have specific examples as to why.
That's all.

That's not all actually. You might not think the same, but your wording was different. That's the difference between opinions and gaslighting people in the first place.
He said: - D5 was already a struggle
You said: - It really wasnt. (and than again.. you proceed to explain your superiority to us lol)
If you like to repeat the same things go ahead, I can repeat the same things again and again too mate.