Thoughts about Bastard's Beacon

[Gentlest Giant]

I'd like to see some discussion about the environment after the release of the Bastard's Beacon. I'm gathering my thoughts and would like to see yours.

For context, I am assuming the use of Bastard's Beacon, confession 5 and no memories. The only self-imposed restriction I use is that I clear all lairs. This is particularly relevant, and very much affects my take on the new environment.
I'm also tracking my winrate, rather than trying to brute force a singular win.

The main thing the Bastard does is makes ALL enemies ordained, and makes the collector appear more often. This has the most impact during region 1 and the least during region 3. Bosses were previously never ordained, now the bosses are always ordained. Huge difference. Relationships are also a thing now, no more 5% chance at 20 affinity, lol.

So. Region 1 has always been the hardest region, now that is amped up to eleven. As such, the group you pick at the crossroads has to be capable of performing with only 2 upgrades, can not assume to be able to remove any negative quirks and spending all available resources at the first inn is crucial. The pet has to do something relevant right away. The Shambler goes to be even more of a meme while the Slime got oddly good, since combat items are very valuable this early on. Bounty Hunter is an obvious pick as usual.

I don't have much to say about normal encounters. They hurt a lot more, but usual strategies still work, and you can expect to be able to heal some at the end of most fights.

As for hero picks.
Bosses have a lot more hp. A lot. The Leviathan's slappy hand has 31 hp for crying out loud.
You can't get by with throwing daggers or swinging clubs at 11 damage on a crit. If you use physical damage, you need buff/debuff tokens more than ever to stay relevant. DoTs remain the kings of dealing with bosses, but the region with the good trinkets for your dot type also has the boss most resilient to it. I am convinced that in order to have a better winrate, you can not go to the region with the resistant boss. Getting the +PEN trinkets before the boss fight is unlikely.
Your upgrades also really has to go to stuff with damage upgrades. This makes characters reliant on upgrades much worse. Poet, Carcass, Ritualist, dodgetank Grave Robber and Vestal (not Chaplain) stand out to me as capable of doing their job without upgrades. Carcass in particular has been my most successful region 1 tank due to incredible action-efficient sustain and no cooldown for taunt.

I have always been on the fence regarding if the Flagellant, due to the appearance of Death, is the worst character in the game. I am now convinced it is so. The risk imposed by the ordainment is just too great.

The Bastard's Beacon will look fundamentally different if you are willing to skip the region 1 boss. Maybe easier than the Stygian Blaze?

[Gal Kraft]

I agree Act 5 is less relevant than the others. Though each BB run I did (I've only done 6) I think I hit at least one deaths door check. The act 3 boss had me concerned. Act 2 boss had all but 1 hero at deaths door by the end. Act 1 was hard because of lack of regions but still did ok at boss fight. I wiped in act 2 once because I attempted librarian in region 1.

All in all the increase in difficulty is in reverse. I ran 5,4,3,2,1 and it got harder each time

[Raki]

I've been playing a lot with Stygian Blaze, yet not that much with Bastard's Beacon. (as of yet)
The reason being mostly what you described, you have to craft a team able to function in peak condition right from the get go. But I like to experiment a lot, which does not mesh too well.

I have only tried (and killed) Confession 1 boss with Bastard's Beacon so far.

Honestly, if you are looking at pure Win Percentage, I imagine skipping the first Lair is probably the better move. (Of course, custom challenge counts separately)

Personally, I think Bastard's Beacon provides a bigger challenge than Stygian Blaze overall. You're right it diminishes in the latter regions, but with the ordained bosses, the final battles are more challenging again. Overall, I would not call Bastard's Beacon easier, at all. :)

P.S. I fully agree regarding Carcass. Someone recently called her Poop Tier in another thread a few weeks ago, and I could not disagree more. Carcass is a strong pick, nice to see you also have a good impression of her.

EDIT @Gal Kraft: I'd imagine Confession 5 being a lot harder than 1. Am I missing something?

[Guzu]

Leviathan on Beacon is the only one I haven't done yet but I'd assume he's beatable as usual as long as it's not the first region. All 3 other bosses are doable region one and it all depends on the comp and what the first inn provides in terms of (combat) items. For me personally pet choice depends on the stage coach items. Rabbit is great but only if I get griddle or stew pot. Pigmy, Shrieker and Slime are okay too if I can get something early with them and if nothing great is offered wold cub is a very solid companion. Cub is probably the best alongside rabbit but I don't want to always choose the same pets.

I guess the most run ending things on Beacon is a Collector or Death region 1. And then there are the Confession which deal RIDICULOUS dmg. What's interesting about beacon is that more defensive strategies that are usually not great become a bit better. I'm not a fan of Carcass but she might be okay for Beacon + region 1 boss. MAA is still obviously better though.

[Gal Kraft]

Originally posted by Raki124:

@Gal Kraft: I'd imagine Confession 5 being a lot harder than 1. Am I missing something?

perhaps it's my play style. I had Safety of Slumber trophy and poultice and trinkets to prevent DoTs. Act V allowed for plenty of time to gather such things. Act I found only 1 stun poultice and trinket, so most of the fight was scary. Also the Act V buffs from BB seemed the least threatening to me. Act II was admittedly the toughest.

[Gentlest Giant]

The best thing about finding Bounty Hunter in region 1 is that you do not have to visit the Altar of Hope on your way back to the crossroads.

The thing about Carcass is that she does not pretend to be able to do anything else than just run around and put out fires. While her tanky colleagues has a fire extinguisher on standby, Carcass obsessively hoses all around her at all times regardless of what's going on.
Turns out that is a pretty useful idiosyncrasy in an environment where ♥♥♥♥ is on fire all the ordained time.
She is pretty handy with that hose.

[Gentlest Giant]

I'm going to consider discarding the first boss trophy, regardless of quality, for the sole reason of avoiding Collector in the latter part of region 1 and the first of 2.
My pretty heads have been shanghai'd a few too many times by now, he demands respect.

[Gal Kraft]

Originally posted by Toxic Giant:

I'm going to consider discarding the first boss trophy, regardless of quality, for the sole reason of avoiding Collector in the latter part of region 1 and the first of 2.
My pretty heads have been shanghai'd a few too many times by now, he demands respect.

I have never considered that strategy. Then again if we're talking Beacon, you have a very special comp if you're running lair in region 1.

[Loyal Cygnaran]

Bastards is still harder than stygian skipping region 1 lair imo. That's how I did it when I wanted to slam it but still such a tough set of runs. Was a blast

[Raki]

Grand Slam with Bastard's Beacon? Wow, congrats, I think that will forever be beyond me.

Toxic Giant, thanks for the hint with discarding the lair 1 drop. Though I think I'd only need it if Bounty Hunter appears in the first Region. :)

One question, are you consistently killing the Lair 1 boss. Or is it more like it doesn't matter yet, because you're not heavily invested at that point?

[Gentlest Giant]

Oh I track my winrates, but I do not note specifically what killed me. It differs quite a lot by region.
In region 1, I get past Tangle about 70% of the time, Sprawl about 50% and Foetor and Shroud about 10-15%. The overwhelming majority of losses are in either the lair or the first battle right after it.
Note that the samples sizes are all below 20, so it's still regressing to the mean, wherever that is.

[Gentlest Giant]

So after playing this more and getting better, I've kind of fallen flat a bit in my enjoyment of the Bastard. Region 1 is scary as hell, but the rest of the game does not keep up to snuff. I die sometimes in region 2 but that's it. Phase 1 and 2 of Body of Work are beefier but I don't think phase 3 changed at all. I died a lot more in region 2 and 3 with the Stygian torch. This is, of course, in part due to survivorship bias. The groups that win region 1 are very strong by nature.

So, well, the past weekend I just rolled region 1 and abandoned coach whatever the result. Feels kind of wrong to enjoy the game in that way.

I'm thinking that a better way to do the "hard mode" torch would be to use the Stygian as base, and then add ordainment to all the enemies EXCEPT the region 1 boss. Inelegant, but I think necessary to flatten the extreme disparity in difficulty. Ideally you are on the verge of death at all times, not just in region 1. And let's face it, region 1 boss is overtuned IMO.

[Gal Kraft]

And Flagellant, as you mentioned in the original post. Yeah, I haven't continued with BB as much as you, but attempting region 1 lair was never a forced goal on my part.

[Gentlest Giant]

Ah yeah poor homeboi really does not deserve the ordained spanking first thing in the morning