What's the point in ending the expedition early?

[frails]

It seems like the point would be to allow the party to survive, but they are all reset at the next crossroads unless they previously beat a mountain boss (that team is long dead). What is the point of this mechanic other than giving u a few more candles? When I know I can't beat the mountain boss on this run, are my only options to march my beloved characters to their deaths or delete them? It feels like a downgrade from the persistent roster of characters I could build up in the previous game.

[gruetoo]

when a character has at least 1 memory applied to them, they keep their quirks, current skill loadout, and memories if you quit at an inn. memoryless heroes get rerolled regardless. If you want your roster to persist, start giving them memories.

[RopeDrink]

You are lamenting the temporary power - not the permanent power (which is preserved if you quit at the Inn, whereas mid-run abandonment or failure will fully reset the lost heroes outright and dent your candle intake).

DD1 is a linear A-to-B campaign with background progression.

DD2 involves replayable bite-sized campaigns with profile progression, ala Slay the Spire -- where every run begins close to baseline level, and your job is to make the best of what you find before the finale. Victories are rewarded with a slice of stackable (and losable) power via the Altar, and failures wipe those benefits - hence you are allowed to bow out of a run via the Inn if you suspect it will go poorly. If you simply ESC>Abandon, that is considered a flat loss.

[frails]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

You are lamenting the temporary power - not the permanent power (which is preserved if you quit at the Inn, whereas mid-run abandonment or failure will fully reset the lost heroes outright and dent your candle intake).

DD1 is a linear A-to-B campaign with background progression.

DD2 involves replayable bite-sized campaigns with profile progression, ala Slay the Spire -- where every run begins close to baseline level, and your job is to make the best of what you find before the finale. Victories are rewarded with a slice of stackable (and losable) power via the Altar, and failures wipe those benefits - hence you are allowed to bow out of a run via the Inn if you suspect it will go poorly. If you simply ESC>Abandon, that is considered a flat loss.

I'm not really concerned with the power balancing of it, just want to continue playing with these particular characters. I grow to like them over the course of the campaign and want to continue their story beyond a self contained level. It seems the only way to do that is by beating a mountain boss, but unless u wiki and prep beforehand ur doomed to fail at least once. So is the game just going full on rogue-lite, making long term characters impossible?

[calderon]

Only killing the mountain bosses prolongs the life of your team.
There's no other way.

[RopeDrink]

unless u wiki and prep beforehand ur doomed to fail at least once.

That's how it is in almost every game - especially DD1 - containing preset finales where you have no idea what to expect the first time around (unless you spoil yourself), and if you decide to retreat from the dungeon for any reason, a hero is forcefully and permanently sacrificed.

Once you've seen the regional bosses and Darkest Dungeons -- or in this case, each Mountain -- you will know what to expect and how to counter them. It is all part and parcel.

- I'm not really concerned with the power balancing of it, just want to continue playing with these particular characters.

- So is the game just going full on rogue-lite, making long term characters impossible?

It is not meant to be a linear A-to-B (like DD1), yet there is losable progression in the form of memories and locking quirks. The next time you play, think of your four favourite heroes, slot them into a team at the crossroads, save that party loadout, and then, consider pushing them through a Grand Slam -- complete all 5 acts in a row with that specific team without anyone dying -- and let's see how attached you might get.

The game is designed for micro-replay. As said, it's akin to Slay the Spire, and if you walked into the next ascension (or a new Act) with the goodies from your previous run, then the machine breaks down. However, unlike Slay the Spire, you do retain a semblance of power.

There are also hints of a gameplay shakeup down the road - hinted at before any recent interviews - so I've no idea if it has been discussed since, but given how early we are into DD2, I won't be shocked if/when the systems are shaken and stirred down the pipeline.

Personally, I'm just waiting for Endless Mode.

[Raki]

Originally posted by calderon:

Only killing the mountain bosses prolongs the life of your team.
There's no other way.

Only killing a mountain boss can give you a memory, that's true. But as soon as you have at least one memory on a hero, you can prolong their life also by ending the expedition at an inn. You won't get a new memory, but the hero will keep memories and traits.

The final boss of the first confession is relatively easy to defeat, and also faster to reach than the others, making it a good choice for getting that first memory.

[RopeDrink]

Originally posted by Raki124:

Originally posted by calderon:

Only killing the mountain bosses prolongs the life of your team.
There's no other way.

Only killing a mountain boss can give you a memory, that's true. But as soon as you have at least one memory on a hero, you can prolong their life also by ending the expedition at an inn. You won't get a new memory, but the hero will keep memories and traits.

The final boss of the first confession is relatively easy to defeat, and also faster to reach than the others, making it a good choice for getting that first memory.

Indeed. Here's a quick copy/paste from a near-identical thread down the page:

Simply put:
If you return home via the Inn, your heroes retain their quirks and memories.
If you are wiped out (or abandon the run mid-drive), your heroes are fully reset.

So, if you're concerned about the next region, or relationships, or the state of your team, or aren't confident about the final boss, or picked the wrong team/chapter, or lose a hero mid-run and don't feel like replacing them with a different class, or simply want to start over without losing perma-prog (etc), you can use the Inn to return home without any detriments.

[calderon]

Originally posted by Raki124:

But as soon as you have at least one memory on a hero, you can prolong their life also by ending the expedition at an inn. You won't get a new memory, but the hero will keep memories and traits.

Yes, you're right. I didn't mentioned it.

Originally posted by Raki124:

The final boss of the first confession is relatively easy to defeat, and also faster to reach than the others, making it a good choice for getting that first memory.

It depends on the goal you have chosen. If you want to reach the Grand Slam then a better option is to start with act 3 or 4. If you screw it up, you'll save a ton of time because these are relatively the toughest mountain bosses and wandering bosses and their combos are more active in these regions.

[frails]

So ig u either replay the first confession over n over or just be flawless in a game about risk and failure. Yea, I think I just miss the relationships u could build with the first game's randomized characters, it made you feel bad for treating them as expendable. But with this new game, before each run I can just pop another Barristan out of the clone vat to die in the same field 100 other Barristans died in. It feels less personal. I think there's a way to preserve that experience in this new run-based design, just save the characters when ending at the inn even if they have no memories, resetting mastery, items, and such, it would be nice to keep party relationship stats too. But this game kinda abandons the idea of potentially cutting your losses to manage long term resources. Just giving u candles instead of the various interesting consequences of the first game. And u cant run away from a fight anymore either, backtracking in dd1 was annoying but when ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan and the party is being wiped, running away to live and fight another day was a really human thing for the characters to do. Maybe im in it for the rp too much.

[RopeDrink]

So ig u either replay the first confession over n over or just be flawless in a game about risk and failure.

There is no practical benefit to repeating Act 1 over and over. You will not unlock additional memories, won't progress the story, and you'll be farming a bundle of candles that you can just as easily acquire by winning (or losing) while doing harder acts.

There is also no need to be flawless in this game. Like DD1, the vast majority of difficulty hinges on your knowledge, experience, and prep.

But with this new game, before each run I can just pop another Barristan out of the clone vat to die in the same field 100 other Barristans died in.

No different to DD1 - which involves literal clones.

Yea, I think I just miss the relationships u could build with the first game's randomized characters, it made you feel bad for treating them as expendable.

DD1 incentivizes you to treat heroes like expendable dirt.

The best way to stave off Hamlet Assault (if it appears before you're ready for Champion) is to sacrifice low-level plebs - unless you intend to do a proper push, which comes with the risk of perma-loss, even if you try to retreat.

If you're new and/or struggling with gold and currencies, one of the best methods to recoup losses (other than Antiquarians) is to send low-level plebs into dungeons with next-to-no provisions, hoover up as much as you can, and then leave, with or without the full party intact. Even if they survive, chances are, you will immediately dump those heroes and take fresh recruits instead.

It's not uncommon to get new recruits, do a dungeon, and if they gain bad quirks and/or heavy stress and/or better options arrive on the coach, you are typically better off dumping the heroes (instead of wasting time and gold to remove quirks and give them respite).

The only reason to care about heroes is because you've invested time and gold building them for Champion - and the fact that losing them at that point is the most punishing thing that can happen.

Just giving u candles instead of the various interesting consequences of the first game.

There are no interesting consequences. You win or lose a dungeon, which may (or may not) involve losing heroes, and then you manage the resources you have left - with the overarching goal always being the same - to get your team ready for the Darkest Dungeons and win the campaign.

Everything leading up to that point is a simple case of investing currencies into a per-save Hamlet, which you'll build from scratch every single time you make a new save. Over here, you do it once per profile instead and perma-losses are more contained.

And u cant run away from a fight anymore either,

a) You can drive around battles.
b) A vast majority of nodes give you the option to simply skip a battle.
c) You do not have to fully clear a boss-lair - having two opportunities to quit.

It may not be the same as picking a fight and smashing a retreat button, but it counts.

Maybe im in it for the rp too much.

Maybe, or perhaps you merely expected more of the same-old-same. The different style can be a bit of a shock or downer to some people, but like I said, try get your favourite heroes through a grand slam before speaking of attachment.