The straw that broke the gamer's back

[RADN3CTAR]

After his first combat action, my Occultist got Smallpox because of the Hypochondriac quirk he picked up at the last inn. That got me thinking, "there sure is a lot of BS in DD2..."

I'm no stranger to BS in DD, I've played hundreds of hours of DD1 but somehow, this time, it hit different. In DD1 you could always cure diseases at the Sanitarium or with certain camping skills. Just leave the diseased hero in town for treatment an carry on with your adventure. In DD2 however, you need a Hospital to cure diseases... IF you find one. You could also use Leeches from the inn, but they are not guaranteed to be there... oh and that's IF you managed to unlock the Leeches from the Slot Machine Altar in the first place.

DD1 was brutal at times but it felt fair overall. DD2 is a more punishing game just for the sake of being punishing. For example, you get +1 affinity if a hero agrees with your choice at a node but you get -2 if they disagree. Why? Negative quirk removal items always remove the first quirk your hero acquired instead of a random one. Why? A maximum of 3 pets can be selected at the inn even if you've unlocked all of them. Why? You get my point.

Then I am reminded of the first line when you start the game: "Darkest Dungeon is a game about making the best of a bad situation".

In the end, you have to ask yourself, how bad does a situation have to be to stop caring. I think I have found my breaking point.

[Huge Beard Guy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RADN3CTAR:

Why?

I'd guess, to guarantee that the run is forever changing from the last whilst still allowing for player agency.

[HighLanderPony]

That was a bunch of nothing said with a lot of words.

Thx for the clown, nerds.

[Jaggid Edje]

Multiple ways exist to cure diseases, none of which are particularly bad in terms of their affects. And that's the straw that breaks it?

I have a team where 3 of the 4 heroes are diseased right now, as I approach the mountain for the act 5 boss. (Long story short, but I got diseases on them all while traversing through the last region before the mountain, and the hospital was on a path that I could not reach).

I still think they will beat the boss, diseases and all.

[Ismoísta]

Dude, of course DD1 hit differently, and of course you think DD2 is harder or more unfair, that's because you are comparing playing DD2 now (a game you are just learning) to playing DD1 at the end (when you already knew a lot about the game).
There's no way you are not comparing it to when you first started playing DD1. Because there's no way you can remember accurately what that was like, because once you got the hang off it, the cool memories overwrote the hardships from when you got better at the game.

[The Face]

Saying DD1 felt fair when it BS you is just the biggest nostalgia glasses I have ever heard

[tili1]

The "problem" with DD2 isn’t BS, the “problem” is that it is super frustrating.

Imagine you are building a house. You work hard for that house. You buy the materials, stack the bricks, carefully put the wooden floor and fix the roof on top. When you are putting the last nail on the thing, it all comes crashing down. It is the book definition of frustration.

That’s why you see streamers rage quit this game and the reason the game has so much bad reviews. I raged quit this game several times, even though I think it is a good game.

DD1 (mostly) had none of that. You were always making progress, even if the game was unfair and punishing at times. You were always developing your heroes and hamlet. The player didn’t feel as bad when something goes wrong.

[Yerc2]

RNG definitely has heavier impact in DD2 than DD1. In general, that's a fairly common thing for roguelikes to do though.
It's a way to make content seem variable when you're doing the same runs.

It just boils down to personal preference of how much RNG you like, and how much you think it should determine the success of your run.

It's unfortunate that you can effectively lose an hour of progress at random. But at the same time, we do have some forms of negation and removal, which also happen to have some RNG behind them.
I personally think it would be nice if there was more emphasis on strategy/planning, and less on RNG. But that's just my opinion.

Oh, and it also doesn't help how RNG can destroy your run, but it can't really provide you anything comparatively good for your run. I probably worded this horribly.
Like if the base is 0. RNG can give you -10 to +5. It can hurt you more than it can help you.

[Jaggid Edje]

I personally love the RNG. I plan to play using the 'random party' feature once I have all of the memory slots unlocked for all of the classes. RNG is awesome, it makes every run fresh and different.

"Different strokes for different folks" definitely applies here.

And @tili1, you are comparing something that is "work" (building a house), to something that is done purely for entertainment (playing a game). That's hardly an apt metaphor.

I get it that someone who views playing the game as "work" would get frustrated when RNG ruins their plans, but seriously....stop viewing your leisure time activity as "work" and you will be much less likely to get frustrated just because something didn't go entirely as planned.

[Ismoísta]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tili1:

The "problem" with DD2 isn’t BS, the “problem” is that it is super frustrating.

Imagine you are building a house. You work hard for that house. You buy the materials, stack the bricks, carefully put the wooden floor and fix the roof on top. When you are putting the last nail on the thing, it all comes crashing down. It is the book definition of frustration.

That’s why you see streamers rage quit this game and the reason the game has so much bad reviews. I raged quit this game several times, even though I think it is a good game.

DD1 (mostly) had none of that. You were always making progress, even if the game was unfair and punishing at times. You were always developing your heroes and hamlet. The player didn’t feel as bad when something goes wrong.

You are historically incorrect. People hated DD1 early on, for example they absolutely hated when the game introduced corpses (because they didn' like having to worry about the enemies positions).
The difference is people got better at DD1, and haven' gotten good at DD2.
You all lack perspective, DD2 is not really any more "RNG ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" than DD1 is.

[DirtyDigs]

All that bullsh*t and punishment is kinda the point of the game my friend. It's not meant to be easy to beat or even fair, not that you are asking for an easy ride or anything.

On normal you would always progress but it was really meant for Darkest or hard mode or whatever. If what your asking for is a non perma death mode, you might get some love from the devs if you ask them. I'm sure many people would prefer a exploratory progression based version as well but the rogue cult will defy you at every turn so ask for the OPTION not a full change. Im not sure this game could even work like that though.

DD1 was brutal on the hardest settings, you could make the best possible choice and still get wiped due to rng...which meant losing the campaign most of the time as well. There was no guaranteed winning strategy, there were highly successful strategies but nothing could counter player miss, enemy crit, player miss, enemy crit...you get the point.

[PotatoScav]

they have the candles mechanic to make the game easy over time

[Wedge]

Problem I have is with the % chance on the disease removal coach item. I can pass through an entire zone and not get a single cure when multiple people are sick. Also leeches pretty much never show up I'm at like 60 hr I've only ever gotten them once and that was when I unlocked them lmao. This game is more rng heavy then 1 when it comes to a bunch of things.