More! MORE! doesn't seem all that good, am I missing something?

[tiamats4esgares]

I keep seeing people talk about how great this is but it doesn't seem that good to me. It only lasts one turn. Even upgraded, if you managed to get attacked twice (which won't even always happen) that's only 30% healing, Lash's Gift gives more than that AND gives buff (at least in Wanderer, which seems to be the best healer/support subclass sadly).

Am I missing something?

[Null Winter]

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Originally posted by Null Winter:

MORE! is the best tanking skill in the game, without contest. Its combo utility is absurd, as is its action economy value. Everyone else already covered why, though, so I can't rant about how good it is. -_-

It's barely better than Lash's Gift at best, without the buffs that Lash's Gift gives, and can severely backfire and is too random to be of any use.

Taunt is amazing specifically because it removes the randomness of targeting, and a massive self-heal can't backfire.

[Ben bitmişim]

More more is the most broken skill in the game. Definitely getting a nerf next patch. It should be on a 2 turn cooldown at least.

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by Null Winter:

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

It's barely better than Lash's Gift at best, without the buffs that Lash's Gift gives, and can severely backfire and is too random to be of any use.

Taunt is amazing specifically because it removes the randomness of targeting, and a massive self-heal can't backfire.

Uh, it backfires, when the enemy uses non-targeted abilities or just buffs or the Flag dies because he can't handle all that incoming damage when he's probably already low. So yeah, it CAN backfire, because it's delayed and unpredicatable.

[MarcoPants]

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Originally posted by Null Winter:

Taunt is amazing specifically because it removes the randomness of targeting, and a massive self-heal can't backfire.

Uh, it backfires, when the enemy uses non-targeted abilities or just buffs or the Flag dies because he can't handle all that incoming damage when he's probably already low. So yeah, it CAN backfire, because it's delayed and unpredicatable.

and how often do those situations you listed ever happen? Few enemies will spend a turn self buffing, most enemies can hit the frontline in some way, and you have to be doing something horribly wrong to get a Flagellant killed in anything that isn't a boss or an impromptu visit from Death

[Son of Satan]

Yes for healing it's not that great (sepsis is much better usually), you use it for the taunt tokens. Those are pretty good even without any trinkets, but certain trinkets and quirks will make them extremely powerful.

[Ben bitmişim]

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Originally posted by Null Winter:

Taunt is amazing specifically because it removes the randomness of targeting, and a massive self-heal can't backfire.

Uh, it backfires, when the enemy uses non-targeted abilities or just buffs or the Flag dies because he can't handle all that incoming damage when he's probably already low. So yeah, it CAN backfire, because it's delayed and unpredicatable.

That's not happening to anyone anytime soon. Flagellant is a thick boy with 50 base health lol I'm sure he can handle couple taunt tokens.

[MarcoPants]

Originally posted by Ben bitmişim:

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Uh, it backfires, when the enemy uses non-targeted abilities or just buffs or the Flag dies because he can't handle all that incoming damage when he's probably already low. So yeah, it CAN backfire, because it's delayed and unpredicatable.

That's not happening to anyone anytime soon. Flagellant is a thick boy with 50 base health lol I'm sure he can handle couple taunt tokens.

I've managed to push his health above 100 before lmao. Basically nothing's killing him then unless I let him die

[Harbaugh]

More, MORE is the best skill in the game. What does it do?

It gives you 2x taunt, meaning half of the incoming damage for a round you know will land on your tank. Each hit gives you a pain token, which at the end of the next turn will heal 10% of your max HP... 15% if you're using More, MORE+. To clarify, you get the pain token at any HP loss, be it from some sort of status effect (Burn, Bleed, or Blight), as well as due to going Toxic. You max out at 3 pain tokens, for a total heal of 30%/45% mastered.

This skill, combined with Endure, basically eliminates 80% of incoming HP damage and almost all stress damage. You still may see some meltdowns during boss engagements, but by and large you're doing something very wrong if you have meltdowns while region hopping.

Put these on a Scourge Flagellant and you're really cooking with grease. You WANT to go Toxic. Use endure to eat those stress pips. On longer fights you'll easily get three blight tokens, which will give any enemy who hits you (remember, you're constantly taunting) +9 blight. Scourge changes Toxic to give the enemy +3 blight per toxic token (instead of +2 on other paths) as well as raising/reducing HP to 45% (instead of 30% for other paths). This will get you 30, 40 blight per turn easily in many cases, giving you Sepsis hits in the triple digits.

The ONLY drawback is your FG will have zero relations with the rest of the party, forcing some cursed skills. But since the FG is so damn powerful, it probably won't even matter, and if you get the bad relationship that causes the +1 stress, it's actually a buff when the other party member uses that skill (also gives you more opportunities to use endure).

[Harbaugh]

Originally posted by The Face:

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Wait does it include when you get hit from burn/bleed/blight? :O Hmmm

Nah just direct hits

Incorrect - any HP reduction events (going toxic, status effects) cause a pain token

[tiamats4esgares]

I might try it again. I'm not used to having an entire person only tank. The party I was using before was Vestal - Jester - GR - Hellion. I replaced Vestal with Flag and was trying to just use him to heal. I guess Hellion was my tank before, or partly GR too, and after the swap I put Flag 2nd and used him as the partial tank along with Hellion, while GR sat in the back.

Anyway, I don't think that's the intended way to play him. (I tried not to taunt with Hellion when Flag was taunting though.) But I also played against a lot of people with buffs, like cosmic fights and stuff, maybe the majority of fights you'll get more people hit him. But I'm also not sure what to do once he gets low because without trinkets he has 50 health, so am I supposed to be still using More! MORE! at 24 health? Or use Lash's Gift instead? IDK. I know I had him up to 100 health before with trinkets but you can't always rely on that. And people are talking about him always having more like...you can't just always have more.

GR can heal herself, and Hellion too to an extent, but Flag works best in the 2nd slot so I need someone in front of him. Surely Hellion is better than MaA because she does more damage...right? (No, I know everyone will always say I'm noob for not using MaA.)

Perhaps I can replace GR with a better DPS, like HIghwayman, though I haven't really used him much. I was going to use her to tank the Act 3 boss next time I got to him. But.....I only got to him once. And every other time I keep dying on the way there. Twice I got to the last inn, and died before the boss, ugh. General's trophy screwed me over one game...

My Flag died, the one time I got to Act 3 boss, he died right before the last inn, I got PD as his replacement, I used Hellion to tank and almost beat the boss, half-assing it not knowing what I was doing really. When the Hellion died and the boss threw his second wave of debuffs out, the GR missed it so it only killed the PD and Jester (albeit quickly). Though Absinthe did not save the poor GR and I lost with the boss having about 25-30 health left. D: RIP

[Harbaugh]

You can put FG in front rank. Go Scourge Path... use More, more!, Endure, Deathless, Sepsis, and the attack skill (can't recall name) that hits slots 1 and 2

PD (whatever path... maybe alchemist), GR Deadeye, HWM Sharpshot, FG Scourge

Breezed through every confession with this party.